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To: rjsimmon

Where in scripture does it say that Mary remained a virgin?
Isaiah 7:14, Canticles 4:12, Luke 1:24 and 27

Every virtuous woman is a virgin before conceiving her firstborn. The Blessed Virgin has the title, because she remained a virgin despite conceiving and giving birth. Her vow of perpetual virginity, as noted in Luke 1:34, was never broken. If you take up the contrary position, you are no longer espousing Christian doctrine.

Where in scripture does it say that Mary lived a sinless life?
Canticle 5:2, Canticle 6:9, Apoc 21:1-2, 9-end

Where in scripture does it say that Mary was assumed into heaven? Canticle 6:10, Apoc 12:1, Apoc 21:1-2, 9-end

Have fun!


327 posted on 08/17/2009 3:52:03 PM PDT by blackpacific
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To: blackpacific
Her vow of perpetual virginity, as noted in Luke 1:34, was never broken. If you take up the contrary position, you are no longer espousing Christian doctrine.

Reading into that quite a bit, I would say.

Luk 1:34 "How will this be," Mary asked the angel, "since I am a virgin?"

Mary was a virgin prior to giving birth to Jesus, but she no longer was after Joseph and she began with the 1/2 brothers and sisters.

Mat 13:55 "Isn't this the carpenter's son? Isn't his mother's name Mary, and aren't his brothers James, Joseph, Simon and Judas?

Did Mary immaculately conceive James, Jospeh, Simon, and Judas.

329 posted on 08/17/2009 4:13:17 PM PDT by rjsimmon (1-20-2013 The Tree of Liberty Thirsts)
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To: blackpacific
Where in scripture does it say that Mary remained a virgin? Isaiah 7:14

Isaiah 7:14 is a prophecy about the advent of Christ. Mary is not mentioned, nor is a perpetual virginity.

Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.

Canticles 4:12

Not scripture. They are hymns.

Luke 1:24

Luk 1:24 After this his wife Elizabeth became pregnant and for five months remained in seclusion.

???

and 27

Luk 1:27 to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin's name was Mary.

Okay, she had never been with a man prior to Joseph. How is that perpetual?

330 posted on 08/17/2009 4:24:34 PM PDT by rjsimmon (1-20-2013 The Tree of Liberty Thirsts)
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To: blackpacific

Scripture teaches Mary did NOT remain a virgin. Jesus was her firstborn. Multiple passages talk about the brothers and sisters of Jesus - and yes, Greek has words for cousin and kin, and they are used regularly by the NT writers (14 times, by my count - including Luke 1:36). Paul refers to James as “the Lord’s brother” - and expression never used of any other Christian. Not for Peter. Not for John. There is also no instance of the NT saying X the brother of Y, where they were not brothers. It also says Joseph had no relations with her until she gave birth.

That doesn’t mean anything bad about Mary. It was gentile philosophers who were appalled at the ‘Mother of God’ also giving birth to others. There is nothing dirty about laying with your husband, or giving birth.

Luke 1:24 & 27 have nothing to do with perpetual virginity. Isaiah 7:14 prophesied the Virgin Birth, not endless virginity.

“If you take up the contrary position, you are no longer espousing Christian doctrine.”

No, we’re just reading the Bible. If your doctrine conflicts, your doctrine is wrong. The words of scripture are ‘God-breathed’, and God doesn’t breath error.


333 posted on 08/17/2009 4:45:01 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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