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To: Mr Rogers
Calvin points out that no one can understand the Scriptures unless taught by the Holy Spirit, whom Jesus promised would teach us all things.|

Duh!

That begs the question.

Amidst the gaggle of conflicting voices, all professing adherence to sola scriptura, and all claiming inspiration by the Holy Spirit, how is a poor sinner to know who truly understands Scripture?

Is it the guy with the big hair and the big voice on TBN? Is it the guy down the block who's just opened up his own storefront "church" in the old barber's shop? Is it the Methodists? Is it the Baptists? Is it the First Baptists? Is it the Second Baptists? Is it those guys in that huge warehouse with the neon sign next to I-20 that says "Church in the Now"?

Thank you John Calvin for making every man his own Pope. Thank you John Calvin for helping to make every man his own Church. Thank you John Calvin for fracturing and splintering Christianity into a gaggle of competing and conflicting voices.

God is one. Truth is one. The Church is one.

All else is error.

384 posted on 08/04/2009 6:58:35 AM PDT by marshmallow ("A country which kills its own children has no future" -Mother Teresa of Calcutta)
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To: marshmallow

Of course God is one, and truth is one. But we are all different, and approach God from different angles - and on GOD’S time line.

Think of spokes in a wheel. The spokes all start at different spots, but draw closer together at the center. If we focus on God, we WILL all be drawn closer together BECAUSE we are drawing closer to God.

However, it is not the Church’s role to enforce unity artificially.

Jesus said, “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field, but while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat and went away. So when the plants came up and bore grain, then the weeds appeared also. And the servants of the master of the house came and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have weeds?’ He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ So the servants said to him, ‘Then do you want us to go and gather them?’ But he said, ‘No, lest in gathering the weeds you root up the wheat along with them. Let both grow together until the harvest, and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.’” - Matt 13.24-30

The visible church will ALWAYS have a mixture of believers and non-believers, and the lives of some of the Popes would indicate the Catholic Church has had unbelievers as Popes. That isn’t a slam on the Catholic Church. Look at the so-called Protestant TV preachers, spewing heresy to pad their pockets.

Peter said the same: “there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them”. The visible church will ALWAYS have false teachers and ‘undercover agents’ sent in to harm it.

That is why decentralized control is important. That is also why it is important not to worry too much about differences, provided they do not involve critical beliefs.

“As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him.

Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God.

For none of us lives to himself, and none of us dies to himself. For if we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord. So then, whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord’s. For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.

Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; for it is written, “As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.”

So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.” — Romans 14.1-12

There are doctrines that must be fought for - see Galatians 2. On others - the perpetual virginity of Mary, for example - there is room for honest discussion, but no reason to judge another.

Note that last sentence: “...each of us will give an account of himself to God”. That is why it is important for the individual believer to listen for the teaching of the Holy Spirit.

“..how is a poor sinner to know who truly understands Scripture?”

The Holy Spirit, who will bring him along at GOD’S pace.


385 posted on 08/04/2009 7:27:50 AM PDT by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: marshmallow
"God is one. Truth is one. The Church is one."

Hence the definition of the word "Catholic". Perfectly conceived, but imperfectly administered by flawed humans, it remains the greatest instrument of good and God's word in the history of the world. Many can criticize those who have tried, but have fallen short of perfection, but no one can honestly argue that the world is not a better place because of the Catholic Church and her works.

387 posted on 08/04/2009 7:59:33 AM PDT by Natural Law
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To: marshmallow

***Thank you John Calvin for making every man his own Pope. Thank you John Calvin for helping to make every man his own Church. Thank you John Calvin for fracturing and splintering Christianity into a gaggle of competing and conflicting voices. ***

Good post; I would only pop in to say that it was Luther that contributed the most. Calvin merely contributed a more evil twist than Luther put to it, setting the stage for all future theologists such as the Campbells pere et fils, Sidney Rigdon who wrote theology for both the Campbellites and for Joseph Smith, Mary Baker Eddy; and, well, we all know the list.

***God is one. Truth is one. The Church is one.

All else is error.***

Even the Church of the Now? :)


397 posted on 08/04/2009 5:29:06 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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