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To: thefrankbaum
While I agree that Scripture isn't *necessary* to accept Christ, it doesn't follow that it is irrelevant. You might be able to kill a deer with a heavy rock. That means a rifle is unnecessary. But I don't think you'd argue that a rifle is irrelevant to such action - it is a different means to the same end

Agreed, but that makes the scriptures just one of many, indeed a limitless number of means available to the same end. Yet, most Protestants profess sola scriptura as the only way.

But God can use Scripture to build faith - how many stories are there of people changing in a hotel room after reading Gideon's Bible?

It's not what God can or cannot do, but what is necessary for faith to appear. Frankly it sounds a bit naive to say that God chooses to "download" faith to people like Paul, Job, Lot, Abraham or Noah, while subjecting others to life-long studies of scriptures. God is not partial or changing.

This thing about different means towards the same end sounds a bit like a rationalization to me although on the surface it "makes sense" in a human box. With God, rocks and rifles are not an issue. By definition, God is perfect and perfection does not come in different varieties.

238 posted on 07/22/2009 5:58:19 PM PDT by kosta50 (Don't look up, the truth is all around you)
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To: kosta50
Agreed, but that makes the scriptures just one of many, indeed a limitless number of means available to the same end.

Even a central Amazonian knows God in a way, since the Natural law is still a portion of the Divine Law. He works as He sees fit. To think that Faith cannot be had outside the Scriptures, IMHO, is limiting to grace, and not a position I'd easily ascribe to.

Yet, most Protestants profess sola scriptura as the only way.

Indeed they do. Which is why I cannot follow them.

It's not what God can or cannot do, but what is necessary for faith to appear. Frankly it sounds a bit naive to say that God chooses to "download" faith to people like Paul, Job, Lot, Abraham or Noah, while subjecting others to life-long studies of scriptures. God is not partial or changing.

I would say that God generally beat Paul over the head with faith before he would accept it, rather than a "download." But, two things: (1) is it not your experience that some people generally have a greater faith, even among children raised in the same family? Why this is, I don't really have an answer...do you? (2) I don't believe people acquire faith from "life-long studies of Scripture." In order to have the patience to conduct such a task, you must have some faith as an impetus, I imagine. However, I believe faith can *grow* through study of God - Theology. One realm of such study is through His revelation in Scripture. Would you disagree?

This thing about different means towards the same end sounds a bit like a rationalization to me although on the surface it "makes sense" in a human box. With God, rocks and rifles are not an issue. By definition, God is perfect and perfection does not come in different varieties.

God is perfect, and immutable. Absolutely. We are not, and experience shows us that we generally approach things differently. Which is more pleasing to God: joining a celibate order and dedicating your life to prayer, or marrying and bringing forth a large, loving Christian family?

239 posted on 07/22/2009 6:20:30 PM PDT by thefrankbaum (Ad maiorem Dei gloriam)
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