Replies

You are the one who wrote, “What do you call that place where people enter for purification after judgement, and following the purification they are saved?”

If, as you now say, you “enjoy explaining Catholic doctrine”, you might want to to get better at it.

You also wrote, “What you believe contrary to scripture is of no concern here, as the thread is about Catholic Mariology, not your theological fantasies.”

This would be true, if this were a closed thread. However, since it is open, those of us who differ are allowed to dispute your assertions.

If my comments are “theological fantasies”, those who read them can decide for themselves. However, you must understand that your inability to do anything other than ASSERT catholic doctrine makes those on the fence more likely to side with me than you.

On most issues, it boils down to this: If you accept Catholic doctrine, then you MUST interpret scripture accordingly, no matter how much it twists the words around. If you do not accept Catholic doctrine, you are free to let the text speak for itself. I suspect this is why Erasmus found it challenging to interpret Scripture, and why Luther laughed at him.

When the sinlessness of Mary rests on the misunderstanding about what a perfect past participle implies, and this on one verse...then the whole edifice rests on sand. One grain.

Believe what you wish, but I retain the right on open threads to dispute it.

You do have a right to voice your opinion on an open thread. I think we are all learning something from the ecumenical dialogue -- but it can get frustrating, and we each have to avoid the temptation of taking things personally and try to aim criticisms at the message and not the messenger.

I suspect this is why Erasmus found it challenging to interpret Scripture, and why Luther laughed at him.

Perhaps Luther laughed at Eramus, but it wasn't directed at doctrine on Mary, because Luther's Mariology was pretty much consistent with Catholic doctrine.

In Luther's sermon of August 15, 1522, on the Feast of the Assumption, here is what he had to say:

"There can be no doubt that the Virgin Mary is in heaven. How it happened we do not know. And since the Holy Spirit has told us nothing about it, we can make of it no article of faith . . . It is enough to know that she lives in Christ.

Here are some other Luther quotes on Mary:

"The veneration of Mary is inscribed in the very depths of the human heart." (Sermon, September 1, 1522).

"[She is the] highest woman and the noblest gem in Christianity after Christ . . . She is nobility, wisdom, and holiness personified. We can never honor her enough. Still honor and praise must be given to her in such a way as to injure neither Christ nor the Scriptures." (Sermon, Christmas, 1531).

"No woman is like you. You are more than Eve or Sarah, blessed above all nobility, wisdom, and sanctity." (Sermon, Feast of the Visitation, 1537).

"One should honor Mary as she herself wished and as she expressed it in the Magnificat. She praised God for his deeds. How then can we praise her? The true honor of Mary is the honor of God, the praise of God's grace . . . Mary is nothing for the sake of herself, but for the sake of Christ . . . Mary does not wish that we come to her, but through her to God." (Explanation of the Magnificat, 1521).

Luther gives the Blessed Virgin the exalted position of "Spiritual Mother" for Christians:

"It is the consolation and the superabundant goodness of God, that man is able to exult in such a treasure. Mary is his true Mother .." (Sermon, Christmas, 1522)

"Mary is the Mother of Jesus and the Mother of all of us even though it was Christ alone who reposed on her knees . . . If he is ours, we ought to be in his situation; there where he is, we ought also to be and all that he has ought to be ours, and his mother is also our mother." (Sermon, Christmas, 1529).

Martin Luther had the belief of Mary's Immaculate Conception, Luther's words follow:

"It is a sweet and pious belief that the infusion of Mary's soul was effected without original sin; so that in the very infusion of her soul she was also purified from original sin and adorned with God's gifts, receiving a pure soul infused by God; thus from the first moment she began to live she was free from all sin" (Sermon: "On the Day of the Conception of the Mother of God," 1527).

"She is full of grace, proclaimed to be entirely without sin- something exceedingly great. For God's grace fills her with everything good and makes her devoid of all evil." (Personal {"Little"} Prayer Book, 1522).

Martin Luther also believed in Mary's Perpetual Virginity.