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To: thefrankbaum

There are fallen angels, as described in the book of Job. Satan is a fallen angel, and the demons he rules are, too.

Some angels fell. Some did not. The ones who did not (like Michael and Gabriel, mentioned in the NT) continue in heaven loving and serving the Lord.

Thus the fallen angels have sinned. The others have not. They are servants of God and are not to be worshiped.

Which is a rather good example, come to think of it. The angels in heaven indeed are sinless. Yet we are not to worship them.

They are not described as omniscient, to my knowledge, so I assume they aren’t.


14 posted on 07/19/2009 3:08:18 PM PDT by Marie2 (The second mouse gets the cheese.)
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To: Marie2
Well, I'm glad to be getting somewhere constructively! But, yeah, I agree with you - some Angels are without sin. Therefore, we can't fairly say "sinlessness" is only applicable to God, no?

The angels in heaven indeed are sinless. Yet we are not to worship them.

Agreed 100%. But, when the Psalms command the Angels or beseech their assistance, are the Angels being worshiped?

They are not described as omniscient, to my knowledge, so I assume they aren’t.

The Psalmist pleads for their assistance though, doesn't he? And as you've said, Angels are in Heaven, serving God. So, that means either (1) Angels are in fact omniscient, and thus that is another trait not applicable solely to God, or (2) the relationship between Heaven and Earth is one that those is Heaven can "see" all of Earth simultaneously. Thus, if (2) is correct and Mary is in Heaven, is she not able to do the same as the Angels?

22 posted on 07/19/2009 3:24:16 PM PDT by thefrankbaum (Ad maiorem Dei gloriam)
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To: Marie2; thefrankbaum
They are servants of God and are not to be worshiped.

The Sacred Scriptures have revealed the proper names of only three Angels, all of whom belong to the Choir of the Archangels. The names are well known to all, namely: Michael, Gabriel, Raphael. Ancient apocryphal literature of the Old Testament contains several other names of Archangels in addition to the three just mentioned. Like the sources themselves, these other names are spurious. Names like Uriel, Raguel, Sariel, and Jeremiel are not found in the canonical books of Sacred Scripture, but in the apocryphal book of Enoch, fourth book of Esdras,[1] and in rabbinical literature. The Church does not permit proper names of Angels that are not found in the canonical books of the Bible. All such names that were taken from apocryphal writings were rejected under Pope Zachary, in 745. There must have been danger of serious abuses in this regard during that century, because a similar step was taken in a synod held at Aix-la-Chapelle in 789.

The Catholic Church has set apart September 29 as a feast day to honor the archangels. We also acknowledge that each person who walks this earth has a guardian angel. We have prayers, in praise of these illustrious beings.

Prayer to St. Michael the Archangel

Saint Michael, Archangel, defend us in battle.
Be our protection against the wickedness
and snares of the Devil.
May God rebuke him, we humbly pray;
And do thou, O Prince of the Heavenly Host,
by the power of God, thrust into hell Satan and all the other evil spirits who prowl about the world
seeking the ruin of souls. Amen.

Guardian Angel Prayer

Angel of God, my guardian dear,
To whom His love commits me here,
Ever this day be at my side,
To light and guard, to rule and guide. Amen

31 posted on 07/19/2009 3:56:45 PM PDT by NYer ("One Who Prays Is Not Afraid; One Who Prays Is Never Alone"- Benedict XVI)
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