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To: Alex Murphy; Woebama; unkus; stockpirate; Mr Rogers
has the authority to redistribute wealth

I don't think Benedict is a socialist though, since he says the following in the encyclical as well (as well as the Church's consistent condemnation of socialism):

41. In the context of this discussion, it is helpful to observe that business enterprise involves a wide range of values, becoming wider all the time. The continuing hegemony of the binary model of market-plus-State has accustomed us to think only in terms of the private business leader of a capitalistic bent on the one hand, and the State director on the other....

42. ...The processes of globalization, suitably understood and directed, open up the unprecedented possibility of large-scale redistribution of wealth on a world-wide scale; if badly directed, however, they can lead to an increase in poverty and inequality, and could even trigger a global crisis. It is necessary to correct the malfunctions, some of them serious, that cause new divisions between peoples and within peoples, and also to ensure that the redistribution of wealth does not come about through the redistribution or increase of poverty: a real danger if the present situation were to be badly managed.

57. ...A particular manifestation of charity and a guiding criterion for fraternal cooperation between believers and non-believers is undoubtedly the principle of subsidiarity, an expression of inalienable human freedom. Subsidiarity is first and foremost a form of assistance to the human person via the autonomy of intermediate bodies. Such assistance is offered when individuals or groups are unable to accomplish something on their own, and it is always designed to achieve their emancipation, because it fosters freedom and participation through assumption of responsibility. Subsidiarity respects personal dignity by recognizing in the person a subject who is always capable of giving something to others. By considering reciprocity as the heart of what it is to be a human being, subsidiarity is the most effective antidote against any form of all-encompassing welfare state. It is able to take account both of the manifold articulation of plans — and therefore of the plurality of subjects — as well as the coordination of those plans. Hence the principle of subsidiarity is particularly well-suited to managing globalization and directing it towards authentic human development. In order not to produce a dangerous universal power of a tyrannical nature, the governance of globalization must be marked by subsidiarity, articulated into several layers and involving different levels that can work together. Globalization certainly requires authority, insofar as it poses the problem of a global common good that needs to be pursued. This authority, however, must be organized in a subsidiary and stratified way, if it is not to infringe upon freedom and if it is to yield effective results in practice.

32 posted on 07/07/2009 8:53:24 AM PDT by Pyro7480 ("If you know how not to pray, take Joseph as your master, and you will not go astray." - St. Teresa)
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To: Pyro7480
Do we see here elements of the Protestant approach to Scripture in the way this encyclical is being taken? Clearly the encyclical has to be read in toto and has to be consistent both with its various parts and with longstanding Catholic social teaching and doctrine as explained in the Catechism and other Papal documents.

Using this as a starting point, it's possible to understand the Pope's meaning and the overarching thrust of the encyclical. It is, in fact, a comprehensive analysis of most of our current social and economic ills and a real tour de force as far as constructive solutions based on Christian thinking are concerned.

It's precisely this "take it out of context" approach that leads to all sorts of misunderstandings with Scripture and old habits obviously die hard.

35 posted on 07/07/2009 9:21:13 AM PDT by marshmallow ("A country which kills its own children has no future" -Mother Teresa of Calcutta)
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To: Pyro7480

It still sounds like socialism to me under the guise of a third party acting in my behalf, but against my will.

What if I do not want any of my earnings taken from me and given to someone else without my consent, which I won’t give.

Does this organization have the power to force me to?


41 posted on 07/07/2009 9:59:25 AM PDT by stockpirate (The movement to take back America has already started, Sarah is her name.)
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To: Pyro7480

One problem is that when certain people read the phrase “redistrubtion of wealth” they think it means coming in and taking without due process the fruits of their labors and giving it to another without any accountability being laid upon the recepient. That is Socialism. But that is not Church social teaching which sees wealth not as money alone but as natural resources, means of production, labor, capital, production of goods, profit and investment.

Of these first claim to them is had by the individual who produces them for his betterment and that of his family. What the Church requires is that these things not be used in an exploitive manner that actually hinders a person’s dignity or rights. And that in Christian charity we share the benefits of these with the less fortunate. Not to keep them in a stagnant condition but to actually lift them out of poverty so that they too can contribute to a greater good.

An example of this redistribution of wealth can be seen in the urging that large pharmaceutical companies allow distribution of generic versions of their Aids medicine in developing nations which do not have the means to afford the patented versions. Another example is the simple principle that a business give consideration to a fair and livable wage to its workers as a primary goal and good of business and not just to maximize profits at the expense of those who help produce that profit. (These two things must of course be balanced since without profit a business would go under. So workers who demand wages which make it unrealistic for a business to continue are working against themselves)

Redistribution of wealth also means in Church social teaching a fair system of taxation and distribution of the revenue generated by these taxes. The goal being the protection of human dignity and the elevation of the common good. We know for certain that a perpetual welfare state accomplishes neither of these. We also know that the more layers of beauracracy placed between the aid and the individual the more likey it is that government power will grow while individual autonomy weakens. When this happens the whole philosophy of a political system existing to protect God given rights is lost. Rather we see a philosophy develop which claims the person is to be in service of the State to advance its goals and protect its status. The voices of the poor and oppressed are silenced by this and the ideals of justice and true peace are mocked.

That is what the Church teaches against. The idea that the person should not be the primary focus of any economic system. That is not Socialism but the acknowledgment that we are made in the image of God and any system which exploits or injures the person is an affront to the love the Creator has for us. And for the very Incarnation.


49 posted on 07/08/2009 9:49:56 AM PDT by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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