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2 Thessalonians 2:15
New Testament apostolic teaching to abide by oral tradition

New International Version (©1984)
So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.

International Standard Version (©2008)
So then, brothers, stand firm, and cling to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by our letter.

GOD’S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Then, brothers and sisters, firmly hold on to the traditions we taught you either when we spoke to you or in our letter.

King James Bible
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

American King James Version
Therefore, brothers, stand fast, and hold the traditions which you have been taught, whether by word, or our letter.

American Standard Version
So then, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye were taught, whether by word, or by epistle of ours.

Bible in Basic English
So then, brothers, be strong in purpose, and keep the teaching which has been given to you by word or by letter from us.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle.

Darby Bible Translation
So then, brethren, stand firm, and hold fast the instructions which ye have been taught, whether by word or by our letter.

English Revised Version
So then, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye were taught, whether by word, or by epistle of ours.

Webster’s Bible Translation
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Weymouth New Testament
So then, brethren, stand your ground, and hold fast to the teachings which you have received from us, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

World English Bible
So then, brothers, stand firm, and hold the traditions which you were taught by us, whether by word, or by letter.

Young’s Literal Translation
so, then, brethren, stand ye fast, and hold the deliverances that ye were taught, whether through word, whether through our letter;

yopiosis alert
pyrite alert

I have never even heard of this 1909 book. But apparently you (and the yopios blogs you copied it from) think that Catholics treat the book as if it were the key to our 2000 year-old traditions and doctrines handed down by the Apostoles and their successors.

For what its worth, here is the source, and I suspect that the Greek word that has been singled out (ἀνάγραπτοι, which the yopios bloggers translate as "recorded" or "written") actually has a negative modifier within the sentence that actually renders the Catholic author's translation accurate, as in "written it was not" or some similar grammatical device that are VERY common in other langauges.

This is pure speculation on my part, but nevertheless, the biblical exortation to cling to oral tradition (that I noted above) from Thessalonians stands.

================================================ Greek excerpt:

Full page:

I have never even heard of this 1909 book. But apparently you (and the yopios blogs you copied it from) think that Catholics treat the book as if it were the key to our 2000 year-old traditions and doctrines handed down by the Apostoles and their successors.

For what its worth, here is the source, and I suspect that the Greek word that has been singled out (ἀνάγραπτοι, which the yopios bloggers translate as "recorded" or "written") actually has a negative modifier within the sentence that actually renders the Catholic author's translation accurate, as in "written it was not" or some similar grammatical device that are VERY common in other langauges.

This is pure speculation on my part, but nevertheless, the biblical exortation to cling to oral tradition (that I noted above) from Thessalonians stands.

================================================

Greek excerpt:

Full page:

>2 Thessalonians 2:15
>New Testament apostolic teaching to abide by oral tradition

Okay, what we have here is indeed a statement that the teachings of Paul, at least, since he was the one who wrote the verse, were to be held whether through oral teachings (preaching) or epistle.

Does this mean that what Paul wrote and preached are different? No. It would be wise to think that if they were that one or the other would be suspect. Since the scripture is God-breathed, inspired by the Holy Spirit, we know that that cannot be wrong. Thus if there is any contradictions between the oral traditions that Paul taught and the scriptures, the tradition must be wrong, unless you would put forth that the Spirit could make mistakes. I pray that this is not the case.

2 Thessalonians 2:15 just says that you are to stand firm in Paul’s teachings however you find the teachings. Both of us can agree that Paul should be held as an authority of the church. Peter wrote that Paul’s epistles were scripture. (Funny that he said nothing of what Paul taught orally. Good argument that they were one and the same. )

What we do have is inconsistencies in how the Catholic church judges tradition. Ireneaus claimis that Jesus died at age 50 (Against the Heresies, chapter 6 I believe), and that John and the apostles taught that to him personally. And the Catholic church, as far as I know, do not hold to that ‘apostolic’ teaching even though it comes through the very means of transmission from which the Catholic Church suggests it gets everything else. So if a claim is made through traditions what is the standard of measure for them?

I can dig up the list, much like yours, of Early Church Fathers that said that the SCRIPTURES are the measure. Will that hold water with you? No, for like your list, it is easy to cherry pick the massive and contradictory writings of the ECF’s, and as the original article shows, even the translations of their writings are suspect. Do we have as many original manuscripts of the Early Church Fathers as we have Scripture? Or are these ninth century translations which contain many errors, much like the medieval bible.

So what can we do? Well, we still have the actual writings of the apostles. Any traditions must be suspect without direct revelation by God, since there has yet to be a list of traditions which are shown to be canonical, inspired or that can even be verified to be something taught by Jesus, the Apostles, or even in some cases, the early church fathers themselves.

Now as for your list that I must agree is very very long, is there anything there that is taken from older works, which might be mistranslated, on purpose or mistaken? If you read James Swan’s blog, you can see the effects of the writings of the Catholic apologists during the time (and later) of Luther, and their purposeful twisting of Luther’s statements during the heated time of the Reformation.

The echos of such polemics are still being found on the lips of popular apologists who just do not do their homework. Have you done yours, checking the sources of that list? Are you sure you are not echoing the mistakes or possible sins of others?

Do you care enough to check? THAT is why I posted the article.