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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Answer: he must be born again, spiritually, by the free gift of the Holy Spirit, according to the will and purpose of God.

Sorry, it doesn't work that way. If I had a nickle for every "saved" person I know that has been set free of nothing but their guilt, I could have retired in my first year of "salvation."

953 posted on 06/30/2009 10:06:40 AM PDT by papertyger (A difference that makes no difference is no difference)
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To: papertyger; Dr. Eckleburg

I’m copying, but folks put a lot of work into thinking this out, and I agree with them.

4.1 The grace of faith (by which the elect are enabled to believe to the saving of their souls) is the work of the Spirit of Christ in their hearts. It is normally brought into being by the ministry of the Word. It is increased and strengthened by the ministry of the Word, and by the administration of baptism and the Lord’s supper, prayer, and other means appointed by God.

14.3 This faith may differ in degree, and may be weak or strong, yet even at its weakest it is different in kind and nature (as is all saving grace) from the faith and common grace of temporary believers. Therefore, though it may be frequently attacked and weakened, it gains the victory, and develops in many until they attain full assurance through Christ, who is both the author and finisher of our faith.

Faith without works IS dead! Works without faith have no value in any way! Our salvation results in our becoming a new creation.

All of us - including Catholics - have seen impostors come into the ‘church’, who claim to have faith but who do not. I’ve known both Catholics and Baptists who never lost a chance to commit adultery, but I’ve never known a Christian who lived that way!


958 posted on 06/30/2009 10:28:58 AM PDT by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: papertyger
And so Rome once again denies the work and purpose of the Holy Spirit. Same old, same old.

"Indeed the Word of God is like the sun, shining upon all those to whom it is proclaimed, but with no effect among the blind. Now, all of us are blind by nature in this respect... Accordingly, it cannot penetrate into our minds unless the Spirit, as the inner teacher, through his illumination makes entry for it." (Calvin's Institutes 3.2.34.)

Although we can have a reasonable certainty of our own salvation if we possess Trinitarian faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, none of us knows the names of the elect. However, we do have a good indicator in a man's good fruits of the Holy Spirit. Good fruits come from a good tree, planted and nurtured by God. A corrupt tree produces evil fruit and will eventually be dug up and destroyed by God.

"Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up." -- Matthew 15:13

961 posted on 06/30/2009 10:48:12 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: papertyger

“Sorry, it doesn’t work that way. “

Jesus says it does.


1,030 posted on 06/30/2009 5:05:44 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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