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To: Marysecretary
Try just reading the words. Most of it is pretty simple and straightforward, not needing a lot of interpretation. Jesus says what He means and means what He says.

Well in that case, let's take a look at these simple and straightfoward words in this passage right here:

James 2:14-17
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, if a man say he hath faith, but have not works? can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked and in lack of daily food, 16 and one of you say unto them, Go in peace, be ye warmed and filled; and yet ye give them not the things needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it have not works, is dead in itself.


Just reading the words here, it seems pretty simple and straightforward that works are necessary for salvation, and not just faith. Obviously, the simple and straightforward implication is that sola fide is a false doctrine.

Good, glad we took care of that! You're right. It's soooo easy to read Scripture without having any presuppositions whatsoever! Why hadn't I thought of that before? :)

God bless.
499 posted on 06/28/2009 9:57:49 PM PDT by bdeaner (The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? (1 Cor. 10:16))
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To: bdeaner; Marysecretary
Good works are the evidence of true faith in Jesus Christ, not a requirement for it. Good works are the good fruit of a redeemed life. We are saved by grace through faith alone, per Ephesians 2.

"Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." -- Romans 4:4-5


Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost...

"And let our's also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful." -- Titus 3:5,14


510 posted on 06/28/2009 10:49:23 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: bdeaner

First, you can’t take a verse out of context. Read what the chapter is saying. Then see what the whole counsel of God has to say about faith and/or works. Anyone can build a religion out of a verse without considering what the rest of God’s Word has to say about that subject.


551 posted on 06/29/2009 5:07:25 AM PDT by Marysecretary (GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL!)
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To: bdeaner; Marysecretary

“Just reading the words here, it seems pretty simple and straightforward that works are necessary for salvation, and not just faith.”

What is necessary for salvation is that we be born again.

John 3: “3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”

What happens when we are born again?

Ephesians 2: “8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.”

When we are born again, we are born to a new life of imitating Christ.

Romans 6: “1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life...

9 We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. 10 For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. 11 So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions.”

So there is no conflict between faith and good works. Salvation involves our dying with Christ, and becoming a new creation, “..created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.”

The only conflict in the clear meaning of scripture is when someone reads one or two verses, out of context, and then tries to apply just those verses.

And the correct response to someone who claims faith frees him from doing good is found, not in the Catholic Catechism, or in the teachings of a Pope, but in the clear teaching provided for us in the Bible.

As it was summarized in the 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith:

“1.7 Not all things in Scripture are equally plain in themselves, nor equally clear to everyone. Yet those things that are essential to be known, believed and obeyed for salvation are so clearly set forth and explained in one place of Scripture or another, that not only the educated but also the uneducated may attain a satisfactory understanding of them by using ordinary means.”


561 posted on 06/29/2009 7:11:24 AM PDT by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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