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To: Markos33
[How do you know that Jesus said that? because it's in the Bible] I don't know whether you realize it or not, but that was the shortest sermon on the authenticity of scripture that I've ever heard.

Markos, that is not a sermon on authenticity of scripture, but a ridiculous reasoning offered by some as "authentic." It reminds me of a Russian exchange student who said "It must be true—it's in the computer (and believed it)!"

Simple faith can sometimes be frustrating

I asked how do you know, and you now introducing faith as surrogate "knowledge?" Okay, let me ask you then: How do you know that what you believe is true?

[And how do you know the Bible is the word of God?] What does Christ say about this...“My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.” John 10:27

But how do you know this is really what God said? All you are offering me is a book which you say is a word of God. How do you know it's the word of God?

How do I hear his voice today, does He speak to me in an audible voice? I'd drop over dead if He did, and besides, I wouldn't believe it anyway. I hear His voice in His Word and His Spirit bears witness with my spirit that His Word is true and it is indeed His Word.

How do you know it's the word and the spirit of God? Saying he bears witness that he is just doesn't cut it friend. How do we know it's not insanity, hallucination, illusion, delusion?

Your own experience doesn't necessarily make something universally true.  It's no different  than your preference for certain kinds of food. Just because you like it more than any other kind doesn't mean it's the best food there is in an absolute sense.

“It is the spirit that quickenth: the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.” John 6:63. God's Word proves itself, it is alive!

God's word "proves" itself? That's funny, you can't even prove that it's God's word? So, again, how do you know it is?

[Other religions quote equally dogmatic statements from their holy books which they believe are from God. In fact, they claim they are from God.] Oh really. So? Does that take away from the authenticity of the Holy Scriptures?

What makes the Bible authentic? You? Other people believe in their scriptures just as much as you believe in the Bible? What makes yours authentic and theirs not?

Because the Bible says so. Doesn't sound very high falutin’ does it. But it's all we have.

It's lame, and high faultin' to the hilt dear friend. It doesn't seem like we have anything, do we? If I post something on the FR and sign it "God" does that mean it is form God? It would take a real nut to believe it. The authenticity of the Bible, unfortunately, is conditioned upon someone's blind acceptance of it as God's word. That in itself does not make it true.

That's not knowledge. That's a belief, possibly an illusion or even a delusion,  based on some personal experience. Some people see lights in the sky and swear it was a UFO. It may have been, but there is no proof that it was. Of course, it could have been a whole slew of other things or even nothing at all.

2,700 posted on 07/18/2009 7:07:51 PM PDT by kosta50 (Don't look up, the truth is all around you)
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To: kosta50; Markos33

If you do not accept scripture as authoritative, fine. Become a Mormon, or a JW, or an atheist. That is your right. One cannot prove by logic that Scripture is Scripture.

Nor does Scripture try. Its authority is ASSUMED, not offered up for proof.

The Roman Catholic Church does not make Scripture authoritative. A council does not. At least one Christian church accepts only a 22 book canon for the NT.

You might want to read here: http://www.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/institutes.iii.viii.html

However, if you do not accept Scripture as authoritative, then it is hard to discuss this over the Internet - at least, not on this thread. After 2700 posts that give at least lip service to Scripture, it is a bit unfair to change the subject.

Yes, we are talking about faith and belief. Christianity is not illogical, but it is not logically deducible.


2,702 posted on 07/18/2009 8:47:05 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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