To: bdeaner
If the Holy Spirit is available to all Christians, then explain why there are inreconciliable differences between sects of Christianity. Does the Holy Spirit lead some sincere Christians astray? If that were so, it would hardly seems to live up to Christ's promise to be with us until the end of the age.Jesus did not say He would keep anyone from error...You guys again add words to the scripture...
Jesus say He will lead but that doesn't mean everyone will follow...
Jesus was talking about His Spirit being HERE until the end of the church age...To guide us...He wasn't talking about hanging with your religion to keep it from error...He there for all of us...You chose your pope instead and hope (or assume) he's listening to the Holy Spirit...
I'll tell you this once again...The JW's have created their own little Green Bible...The Mormans have their Joe Smith Bible...The Catholic have their tradition...The Presbyterians and Anglicans and Greeks and Catholics are all pretty much the same bunch and don't put hardly any stock in the scriptures....
And then you have the individuals and priests and church leaders who think they can come up with some 'new' gem in the scriptures by correcting the hundreds of translators who already translated more than 200 bibles...
Amo 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:
Amo 8:12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.
And don't tell us about your religion...Catholics are all over the map as well...Your church may proclaim to teach many things but it enforces none of 'em... You can ask ten different Catholics what your church teaches and you will hear ten different things...
2,693 posted on
07/18/2009 5:33:57 AM PDT by
Iscool
(I don't understand all that I know...)
To: Iscool
James Cardinal Gibbons, in his best-selling book of Catholic apologetics, The Faith of Our Fathers (1917), eloquently defended papal infallibility against many of the common objections of Protestants and other non-Catholics:
"You will tell me that infallibility is too great a prerogative to be conferred on man. I answer: Has not God, in former times, clothed His Apostles with powers far more exalted? They were endowed with the gifts of working miracles, of prophecy and inspiration; they were the mouthpiece communicating God's revelation, of which the Popes are merely the custodians. If God could make man the organ of His revealed Word, is it impossible for Him to make man its infallible guardian and interpreter? For, surely, greater is the Apostle who gives us the inspired Word than the Pope who preserves it from error . . .
Let us see, sir, whether an infallible Bible is sufficient for you. Either you are infallibly certain that your interpretation of the Bible is correct or you are not.
If you are infallibly certain, then you assert for yourself, and of course for every reader of the Scripture, a personal infallibility which you deny to the Pope, and which we claim only for him. You make every man his own Pope.
If you are not infallibly certain that you understand the true meaning of the whole Bible . . . then, I ask, of what use to you is the objective infallibility of the Bible without an infallible interpreter?"
Those who doubt the authority Christ gave to the Magisterium doubt Christ and His power to grant the gift of discernment. Christ did not cast us adrift in His absence; he did not leave us orphans; he gave us the authority of the Mother Church to preserve and teach His Word infallibly. This Church serves as the pillar and foundation of Truth, so that we know how to behave in the household of God.
"But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth." 1 Timothy 3:15
Of course the scripture is important, but it is the Church that leads us; it is the Church in fact which taught us what counts as Scripture and what does not. To resist the Church is to resist truth. When someone sets themselves up to interpret the scripture outside Church teaching, they are setting themselves above the Church. The following passage explains the importance of obedience to the authority, which includes the Church.
"Let every person be subordinate to the higher authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been established by God. Therefore, whoever resists authority opposes what God has appointed, and those who oppose it will bring judgment upon themselves." Romans 13:1-2
This passage should be frightening to those who do not submit to the Authority of the Church. When Christ founded the Church and commissioned its leaders, he granted them the authority necessary to fulfill its mission. So when we, in an independent spirit, decide that we can do it without the Church, we are in fact bringing judgment upon ourselves. One of the greatest gifts of God was free will. The only question is how will you use it.
"Obey your leaders and defer to them, for they keep watch over you and will have to give an account, that they may fulfill their task with joy and not with sorrow, for that would be of no advantage to you." Hebrews 13:17
"Then Jesus approached and said to them, 'All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age.' " Matthew 28:18-20
Jesus commanded the Apostles to go forth and teach, not go forth and distribute Bibles and let the people figure it out for themselves. If you are not following the Church's teachings on Scriptue, you are actually following the "teaching" of a Church founded by man (Luther, Calvin, Henry VIII) instead of the Church created and commissioned by Christ.
"so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the principalities and authorities in the heavens." Ephesians 3:10
Faith is made known to all through the Church. Its as simple as that.
"We belong to God, and anyone who knows God listens to us, while anyone who does not belong to God refuses to hear us. This is how we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of deceit." 1 John 4:6
The Church did not allow each community to interpret what was right on their own. The "Jerusalem Council" council above was the first recorded Church Council. The last was Vatican II. The Church has, and always will, be tasked to be the voice of truth to mankind placed in context with the current time and place. Just as the Jerusalem Council dealt with the question of conversion to Christianity, today's Church deals with questions of genetic engineering, contraception, and other issues of this time and place.
2,696 posted on
07/18/2009 8:01:45 AM PDT by
bdeaner
(The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? (1 Cor. 10:16))
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