No Salvation Outside the Church

Catholic Answers ^ | 12/05 | Fr. Ray Ryland

[papertyger]

Would you take Jesus literally if He said you are a refrigerator??? Or What if Jesus told you that you were an oak tree???

If the one who called the universe into existence says you are those things, that's what you are.

Jesus is "right" by definition.

He not only didn't tell any of you how to turn a little cracker and a glass of wine into HIS flesh and blood but Jesus never told you to even attempt to try such a thing...

What part of "do this" is so hard to grasp?

Riiiiight...You guys don't believe the gates of hell mean the gates of hell...You claim keys of the Kingdom of God mean power...
You don't believe a thousand years means a thousand years...You don't believe 'after his kind' means after his kind and a million other statements God said...So spare me the drama...

We aren't the ones who advertise we're bound by scripture alone, then scream like offended Pharisees when that's proven false. It's not our standard of interpretation you guys can't live up to...it's your own.

Protestants just can't stand it when we take the scriptures more seriously than THEY do, because it shows they are no better than they claim we are...and with a whole lot less "seniority!"

According to your religion's private interpretation of Scripture, maybe...How many times have you mocked the idea of comparing scripture with scripture???

I don't know. I've lost count of the number of times protestants have tried to use that little trick like it was an actual command of scripture to justify their contrivances.

[bdeaner]

Nope, I’ve looked. I don’t see the work Catholic in the Bible.

You've said this before and I just haven't got around to responding. There have been A LOT of posts, most of which I haven't gotten around to addressing yet. But since this is about the 3rd or 4th time you've said this, I better address it now rather than later...

Two things before I say anything further. The word "catholic" may not be in the Bible, but neither is "trinity." The Trinity is implied by Scripture, as is the catholicity of the Church established by Christ.

The problem is that many have the tendency to understand the word "catholic" to be a denominational term, like Presbyterian or Baptist. But, in fact, it is the opposite of denominational. Catholic means "universal," and that universality is a quality of the Church that was willed by Jesus Himself, when He said: "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to thse close of the age." (Mt. 28:18-20). Such catholicity came as fulfillment of many Old Testament prophecies: "all peoples, all nations, and languages serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion" (Dn 7:14).

Jesus gave the Church an authority that was properly His own--one that is extended throughout all time in every place -- always and everywhere.

From the beginning, the same early Christians who wrote and compiled the New Testament used the Greek word katholikos to describe the Church of Jesus Christ. This word comes from kata hole, meaning "pertaining to the whole" or, simply, "universal." In 105 A.D., Ignatius of Antioch wrote to the Christians of Smyrna, "Wherever the bishop appears, let the congregation be there also, just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church." We also find this same word in accounts of the martyrdom of St. Polycarp, which refers to "the holy and catholic church in every place." These statements have Apostolic authority. Ignatius and Polycarp were disciples of the Apostle John.

The Old Testament prophecy of Malachi can be applied to the Mass: "from the rising of the sun to its setting my name is great among the nations, in every place incense is offered to my name, and a pure offering" (Mal 1:11). This line appears in the earliest Eucharistic prayers, including the one in the Didache, which dates back to 48 A.D.

The primacy of Peter as an authority for this Catholic Church has been discussed already. When he died, the Church filfilled the mandate of Acts 1:20: "For it is written...'His offce let another take.'" Peter has been succeeded in his primacy by others, one of them a man named Clement, who witneesed to Rome's very catholic authority already in the mid-first century! St. Clement wrote--probably as early as 69 A.D., but certainly no later than 96--to discipline a distant congregation in Corinth. As he concluded his remonstration, he said: "You will give us joy and gladness if you render obedience to the things written by us through the Holy Spirit."

Testimony to the primacy of the See of Peter as authority of the Catholic Church is provided by the early Fathers of the Church as well.

[papertyger]

If not, it is then not voluntary...It's a requirement...

Do we have to put up with this kind of trollish baiting? By this kind of quibbling, a volunteer fireman would be nothing but a suicide.

[papertyger]

The context of these scriptures weren't about Peter, they were about Christ and who He was and is.

It's a sad thing to watch someone prostituting their intellect to deny something that is manifestly obvious.

[bdeaner]

That's because we have a commonality...We may not agree on some details but we are basically in unity as it comes to salvation, as Jesus desired...

LOL. This is such a lie, that I seriously hope you don't yourself believe it.

Just to give three examples: Baptists, Episcopalians, and Church of Latter Day Saints are about as far apart as you can get without rejecting Christ as our savior. They are each individually closer to the Catholic Church in teaching than they are to each other, with perhaps the exception of LDS, which is frankly out to lunch.

Just about the ONLY thing that unites them, other than belief in Jesus Christ, is their rejection of the Catholic Church. That's really the one thing all PROTEST-ant sects have in common -- their PROTEST against the Mother Church established by Our Lord, the Catholic Church.

If anyone wants testimony with regard to the authority of the Catholic Chuch, just watch what the rebels constantly and persistently attack. It's plain to see on FR -- that target is the Catholic Church. Dost thou protest too much? The target of the reprobates is the one, True Church. Gives it away every time.

[Religion Moderator]

This is an "open" thread in the Religion Forum. The debate can become contentious.

If this town square type of debate troubles you then ignore the "open" threads and instead post to the "prayer" "devotional" "caucus" or "ecumenical" threads.

[Petronski]

Nope...Shed blood has one meaning...It means blood leaving a body...

In English, "shed blood" has two possible meanings, because in "shed blood" the word "shed" can be read either as an adjective (as if to say "blood that has been shed") or a verb (as if to say "to shed blood").

[driftdiver]

In my heart that’s why I know the Catholic church is a man creation and not a God creation. Catholics make it super complicated and teach that you must have an intermediary because you cannot understand for yourself.

Jesus didn’t send the apostles out alone. Jesus went out among the lost to teach, heal, and bring salvation. He wanted a one on one connection with the lost sheep. He still wants that thru prayer.

[papertyger]

Of course it doesn’t say the word simple but it does give quite clear instructions one a few short steps.

Where? Saying "brain surgery" is simple, too. Doing it is another matter.

[driftdiver]

Theb why do Catholics have all the additional doctrine? Why do they consider the bible incomplete?

[papertyger]

Some things you are missing here...Most Protestants get their theology from the scriptures, only...As a result, they pour over the scriptures for truth and understanding...The bible is the 'final authority' for all matters of faith and practice...

And the part YOU'RE missing is the bible isn't comprehensive enough to be the "final authority." Your doctrines insist it is, so y'all have to contrive all manner of NON scriptural excuses to give interpretations the authority of scripture.

[papertyger]

Any attempt to add to His finished work is complete and utter heresy.

St. Paul was a heretic...who knew?

Colossians 1:24

[Iscool]

Do we have to put up with this kind of trollish baiting? By this kind of quibbling, a volunteer fireman would be nothing but a suicide.

What's that??? Do firemen have to swear an oath to go down with the fire in order to be a fireman???

[bdeaner]

Colossians 1:24
24Now I rejoice in what was suffered for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ's afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church.

[papertyger]

It was meant as a spiritual remembrance of his broken body and shed blood.

Which may be why the protestant concepts of sin are as simplistic and sophomoric as a child who thinks arithmetic principles are the limit of "math."

[papertyger]

Salvation covers both justification and sanctification.

I'm familiar with the "once saved" doctrine. It's unscriptural.

[papertyger]

When I first became a Christian, the Living Bible was critical to me, since I couldn’t understand a more literal translation very well.

AMEN BROTHER! As CS Lewis said, when the bible tells you to feed the poor, it doesn't give you lessons on cookery. You'd think some congregations confer a degree in english lit. when you walk down the aisle.

[Iscool]

In English, "shed blood" has two possible meanings, because in "shed blood" the word "shed" can be read either as an adjective (as if to say "blood that has been shed") or a verb (as if to say "to shed blood").

If you really want to play that game Petronski, shed blood then has three (or more)meanings...

If you happen to like to store blood in your shed, you have, 'shed blood'...If you happen to like the color of blood and use blood to paint your shed, you have shed blood there...

Or perhaps your pitbull's hair will turn into blood next spring...Then, when the old growth falls out, your dog will shed blood...

Yea, there's lots of meanings for shed blood...

[Petronski]

It’s not a game. It’s two real and distinct meanings of “shed blood.”

Sorry you missed them.

[Iscool]

In my heart that’s why I know the Catholic church is a man creation and not a God creation. Catholics make it super complicated and teach that you must have an intermediary because you cannot understand for yourself.

It's all about money and power...Keep the dupes coming and paying...They can do nothing without the church...Even their babies are doomed to hell without the Catholic church...Scare the parents to keep them coming...

Jesus didn’t send the apostles out alone. Jesus went out among the lost to teach, heal, and bring salvation. He wanted a one on one connection with the lost sheep. He still wants that thru prayer.

And when they accepted salvation, they were part of the body of Christ...Jesus and Paul especially warn us about this group...