Pope alarmed by decline in confessions

TimesOnline ^ | 6/19/09 | Richard Owen

[frogjerk]

I know this might irritate you, but the "Church" is the body of believers in Christ. WE are the church, not some hierarchy in Rome.

I disagree and here is why: we are properly called the church when we are in communion with what Christ instituted on earth. The institution that traces is Bishops back to the Apostles of Jesus. This is the teaching I have received and I believe to be true.

[bdeaner]

The decline in attendance at the Sacrament of Reconciliation is likely directly due to the horrible catechetics starting with the “I’m OK, You’re OK” 1970s.

YEP!

[Costumed Vigilante]

I know this might irritate you, but the "Church" is the body of believers in Christ. WE are the church, not some hierarchy in Rome.

You just challenged a Pharisee. As a former example myself, believe me, you could make your case, rise from the dead, and you still would be mocked and disbelieved.

Truth almost always loses to tradition.

But bless you for trying.

[Iscool]

Really? Did you baptize yourself too?
Performed your own marriage ceremony?
Do you act as priest/minister at your own self-oriented self-worshipping masses/services?

There is no man, priest or church required for any of these things...

Fortunately Jesus said, "Come unto Me"...He didn't say come on to a priest...Jesus didn't say come onto Me thru the church...

So yes, you can cut out the middle man for everything...

Did you create yourself while you were at it? Just cut out everything since YOU are the center of the universe.

You got it wrong...Jesus is the center of the universe...And there is NOTHING between you and Him...

[boatbums]

So...you are saying only the Roman Catholics will go to heaven?

Bet that bums out the Messianic Jews.

[kosta50]

Thank you for that informative piece of information and how it affected the Lutherans (and i imagine other closely related liturgical Protestants, such as High Anglicans) as well. I believe that some Orthodox bishops (i.e. Kronstadt in particular, unless I am confusing him with someone else) tried to introduce a "public" or "corporate" confession into the Eastern services but this failed.

I would imagine that the relaxation of the rule was in part predicated by the sheer size of some congregations and a relative lack of clergy available to hear confessions.

Under such circumstances, the responsibility is placed squarely on the recipient of the Eucharist, assuming that he or she will not receive unworthily. That's a very dangerous assumption for both the Church and for the congregation.

The Church is on shaky grounds for allowing this culture of irrelevancy for the Eucharist to take hold, by not stressing that general confession can not replace personal confession and that anyone who decides not to confess on a regular basis and yet receive, may be receiving unworthily and placing his or her soul in grave danger.

I remember asking an American Orthodox Church priest once (after seeing the whole congregation line up) how many Eucharists does one get in his church for one confession. Needless to say he didn't appreciate my question, but that's probably because it struck a raw nerve in his own conscience.

[boatbums]

Good to know I’m not the only one on this thread that disagrees with the standard line. I guess I keep trying because I WAS a Catholic. I hope maybe someone else out there might be searching for truth like I was.

Thanks for the encouragement!

[kosta50]

That would be The Confiteor. “Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa” is when the breast is struck

Thank you VK for this information. Much obliged. At which point in the Mass is this recited? Is it just prior to the Holy Communion? If not, what is the role of the Confiteor as a public confession?

[Costumed Vigilante]

I guess I keep trying because I WAS a Catholic.

Word up!

[Iscool]

So if I went to a funeral or wedding I’d ask God to forgive me and go to Holy Communion because I asked God for forgiveness I knew it was okay. Ha! Lies!

I am pleased to hear a Catholic say this...Not because you don't believe Jesus will forgive your trespasses but because many Catholics here on FR claim that Jesus will forgive you but it's better to go to a man for forgiveness...

I'm sorry for you to think that going directly to Jesus is a lie...I don't know what kind of a protestant you were but we Christians apparently do it a little differently...

We don't wait for a marriage or a death to confess our sins to God...We generally (or often) wake up in the morning and talk to Jesus...Thruout the day we will talk to Jesus and ask him to forgive our bad thoughts, as they happen, while thanking Him for our blessings as well as coming to Him for any of our requests and needs...All day long...

We are the children of God and he is our Daddy...And we talk to Him accordingly...We 'come boldly to the throne of Grace' any time, night or day...

And when we don't know what to pray, the Holy Spirit within us prays (to God) for us...

And you want to wait to get to church to get your forgiveness from a man??? Not this Christian...

[Iscool]

From the apostles, that gift of the Holy Spirit is passed down to Bishops and then to the priests.

That gift of the Holy Spirit is given to ALL people who accept Jesus Christ as their Savior and are thus, called Christians...

[VermiciousKnid]

In the TLM, The Confiteor is said near the beginning of Mass, just before the priest ascends the altar. The first recitation is done by the priest, immediately followed by the altar boys’ recitation. It is followed by the Introit and the Kyrie.

If I am not mistaken, there are some (the SSPX, I think), who recite it once more, just before Communion. I do hope that someone will correct me if I am wrong.

In the N.O., the translation of the original Latin is imperfect, but when it is said, it is also said near the beginning of Mass. Most of the time, though, the Confiteor is omitted in favor of the lector saying a series of penitential statements such as, “Lord, we have sinned against you,” and the people replying, “Lord have mercy.” It is followed by the Kyrie.

In fact, I haven’t heard the Confiteor at a NO Mass in many years; practically all the churches I’ve been to use the second form. Needless to say, I prefer the original.

Regards,

[goat granny]

I have been out of the catholic church for decades, but back when I was a devote convert, the church did teach that there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church..I was a participant in the Synod of( I think it was in the 70's) and hosted and was part of the group that had to come up with ideas' that the church might be able to change to make it more relavent to the people...My particular interest was with missionaries but had to back out when it came to the meeting with the Bishop as the head of the missionary voices. ...(due to illness).So unless the church has changed its teachings they do believe that salvation outside of Catholic church is not possible..

But I haven't been a catholic for decades, so it would take a practicing Catholic to verify or deny this..

[kosta50]

You say everyone gets one for attending Mass, but how would the church, or priest for that matter, stop anyone from receiving the Eucharist?

Well, there are several ways, based on what I know how it's done in Orthodox churches.

(1) through homilies, explaining the need to prepare oneself and not to receive unworthily. The Church must take the lead in teaching the flock, otherwise it's each person making up his own "catechism."

(2) the priest should know most of his flock and have a mental image who did not come to him for confession. Being aware of that should be his pastoral obligation as a spiritual physician. If he hasn't seen someone in a long time he can ask them. If a person is visiting, he can ash him too.

Orthodox priests will ask anyone they have not seen before if (a) they are Orthodox and (b) when was the last time they had a confession. If it is longer than a few months, they may ask why. And if they are comfortable they will gesture the person to move on.

During the papal visit to the Ecumenical Patriarch in Phanar, Turkey, a man approached the Patriarch to receive the Eucharist and the Patriarch spoke with the man briefly. After a few seconds, he politely gestured to the man to move on without giving him the Eucharist. This was televised live on EWTN.

(3) By asking a recipient he doesn't know if he or she is Catholic. I know that the Catholic Church will allow Orthodox Christians to receive in dire circumstances, but generally Protestants can not receive Catholic Communion—unless the priest has established that the recepient's belief in Eucharist is identical to the Catholic (I was told this by a Catholic Naval Chaplain whose congregation consisted of some High Church Anglicans).

(4) Nothing stops a priest from denying the Eucharist to someone he knows is leading an adulterous life, or a public figure who professes abortion, etc.

Naturally, of all these possibilities the first one is the most desirable and sufficiently effective. The priests should not play be policemen, but being spiritual physicians they also cannot allow their spiritual patients to do harm to themselves either.

[bdeaner]

I have been out of the catholic church for decades, but back when I was a devote convert, the church did teach that there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church..I was a participant in the Synod of( I think it was in the 70's) and hosted and was part of the group that had to come up with ideas' that the church might be able to change to make it more relavent to the people...My particular interest was with missionaries but had to back out when it came to the meeting with the Bishop as the head of the missionary voices. ...(due to illness).So unless the church has changed its teachings they do believe that salvation outside of Catholic church is not possible.. But I haven't been a catholic for decades, so it would take a practicing Catholic to verify or deny this..

This is a common misunderstanding, but no, the Catholic Church does not teach that there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church. It's true that Pope Boniface VIII (1294-1303) stated, "ouside the church, no salvation." But he meant something different than what you folks are talking about. "Church" in this context means not only those who really belong to the Church, but also those who belong to the Church by desire -- including those people of goodwill who would join the Church if they knew it to be the one, true Church of Christ.

See:
Is There Salvation Outside the Church?

[kosta50]

correction: and if they are comofortable = and if they are not comfortable

[kosta50]

Thank you once again for your answer.

[Citizen Soldier]

I go about every three weeks and both places I attend (snowbird home and regular home in different states) have a choice of face to face or behing the screen. I am surprised at the number of people in line is small. I feel like I am waiting in the principal’s office on the pew bench outside the confessionals.

[Salvation]

You say you WERE a Catholic......once a person is baptized as a Catholic you ARE ALWAYS a Catholic.

Return to the Church by sitting down with a priest (make an appointment) and get your questions answered.

We welcome you back, and you are definitely invited.

[Salvation]

** At which point in the Mass is this recited?**

At the beginning of the Mass before the Lord have mercy, Christ have mercy, Lord have mercy.

No, it does not suffice for the Sacrament of Penance. It is merely offering our sorrow for our sins.