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To: annalex

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You have manufactured an event around Lazarus that flies in the face of the text. You have Mary & Martha being “rewarded” for their concern by having Lazarus given back to them. The point of the story, however, is Lazarus raised from the dead as a picture of men being dead, helpless, hopeless in their sin. He even waited two more days just to make the scene more dramatic. Why would He do that if it were a reward?

As for Romans 2, if you continued to read on from Chap. 2, you will see that Paul is walking the Italians into a corner. Jews and Gentiles will be judged based upon their works and from that, “...There is none righteous, not even one; there is none who understands, there is none who seeks for God; all have turned aside, together they have become useless; there is none who does good, there is not even one.” And on he goes to prove that the Scriptures have taught all along that man is helpless, hopeless, worthy of death based upon their own performance.

Rom. 3:19ff “Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world become accountable to God; because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight;...” No one will survive the judgment based upon works. You have that a man could and should choose by his own free will to obey God. If that were possible, he could have performed the Law and eliminated the need for Christ.

You will need to follow the arguments of the writers through to see what concept they are contending for. You have turned these arguments on their heads to prove what they are railing against...self righteousness.

There is no earning of anything connected with righteousness, it is a gift from God. Herein is another distinction between the Catholics and the true Gospel. Rome does not want this to be away from their control. They don’t want faith to be a gift of grace given to whomever Christ chooses, irrespective of merit because then they cannot dictate who would merit. Again, the chains of Rome. Yes, they have a dog in this “free will” fight.


284 posted on 07/01/2009 3:08:19 PM PDT by Dutchboy88
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To: Dutchboy88

One thig we know is that Mary and Martha interceded, and Thomas expresed readiness to die. That “[t]he point of the story [...] is Lazarus raised from the dead as a picture of men being dead, helpless, hopeless in their sin” is your spin, — the story does not mention anyone’s sin. What you say may very well be a profitable interpretation of the Lazarus story as well, but the plain reading of the Gospel is that Jesus allowed people to act in seeming contradiction to his expressed desire to not go to Lazarus’s deathbed. Again, this is just one of the several miracles of healing, all with the same pattern of Jesus waiting for some movement of the will on the part of the one being healed.

To say that the passage in Romans is some kind of a trap to catch the Romans in is likewise an interpretation, this time an implausibly far-fetched one; the plain reading of the Gospel is that St. Paul repeats to them the same thing Jesus teaches in Matthew 25 (and in many other documented cases), that we are judged by our works. It is very much true that good works require grace for us to choose them, but the point remains that we are called to make that choice.


285 posted on 07/01/2009 3:30:37 PM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: Dutchboy88
Your posts have been terrific on this thread -- Scripturally-sound and God-glorifying.

The point of the story, however, is Lazarus raised from the dead as a picture of men being dead, helpless, hopeless in their sin. He even waited two more days just to make the scene more dramatic. Why would He do that if it were a reward?

The RCC is all about the carrot and the stick.

Christ purposely waited until Lazarus had died before even setting out to go to him. Why?

"Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, to the intent ye may believe; nevertheless let us go unto him." -- John 11:14-15

Giving life back to Lazarus had nothing to do with rewarding Martha and Mary. They didn't even understand what Jesus was telling them about the dead (not sleeping) Lazarus. Christ waited until Lazarus had died to show them that He alone gives breath to dead people who cannot bring themselves back to life. They must be born again by God.

288 posted on 07/01/2009 11:38:46 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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