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To: dangus; markomalley; Mad Dawg; DarthVader; betty boop; Alamo-Girl

Much appreciate your contextual perspective.

I really have long recognized that the Vatican is . . .

a complex lot of things . . .

. . . bureaucratic, political, theological, sociological . . .

over a long period of time . . . in a changing world context . . .

with changing yet tradition . . . influenced personalities at the top.

As I’ve noted, I have not, per se [contrary to some attitudes on your side], been a chronic Vatican basher insisting that THE POPE WOULD BE THE ANTI-CHRIST etc. etc. etc.

It just hasn’t fit my understanding of Scripture nor of the world.

However, I have assumed, based, I think—on good Scriptural foundation—that

The Vatican LIKE ALL CHRISTIAN ORGANIZATIONS in the END TIMES, WILL definitely fall under the Anti-Christ’s sway, influence, !!!!CONTROL!!!!

And, I have watched, off and on, somewhat keenly for signs of such globalist oligarchy influences. Because, certainly, they will NOT just wake up on a Monday morning and decide to gain control of the Vatican by Friday. They really have been working toward such for a very long time—very VERY methodically . . . and stealthily.

Certainly, as such a large, old, broadly spread Christian organization, the Vatican is a prime target and a prime example for monitoring such influences. It used to be said that what was good for GM was good for the USA. It’s not a big stretch to construe that whatever the globalist oligarchy does to and through the Vatican will not leave the rest of Christendom unscathed for long.

Therefore, it is worthwhile to monitor such influences on the Vatican.

Frankly, when I first read the Paul VI th’s quote in the list of quotes I came across, I was shocked then annoyed. I was shocked that he was so clearly on the side of the globalists that long ago. Then I was annoyed that they’d succeeded in such influence at such levels with the Vatican that long ago.

Now, I’m in the process of analyzing this encyclical to see just how true that seems to be, from my perspective.

I recognize that there are multiple keyword meanings regarding critical keywords.

However, I do not think that so many keywords implicating globalism’s influence ought to be glibly ignored—even by this Pope even this long ago. The themes are there. The memes are there. The influence of the globalists is obviously there, in the first half of the encyclical.

It is conceivable that a percentage of such things could be rationalized away due to various other contextual pressures and issues. It is not conceivable to me that one could accurately, honestly, objectively white-wash all such away. The evidence is too significant.

By that, I mean, that it is conceivable to me that some wordings and nuances could be laid at the feet of other non-globalist pressures—SOME. It is not conceivable to me, so far, to believe that there’s not a shred of real, genuine globalism represented in the document.

What it all means—to me, I’ll have to wait until I finish the 2nd half to comment on. However, the first half is disturbing enough, to me.

Certainly one issue would be . . . to what degree did Paul VI th consciously give voice and approval to globalist aims knowing they were oligarchic globalist aims? And to what degree did he go along with the successfully engineered—at those international leadership levels even back then—the growing ‘world community’ gestalt in some sort of rosey colored farcical propaganda sense so carefully constructed by the globalists. Disney’s IT’S A SMALL WORLD had certainly been cheerily singing the praises of such a meme for a long time by then. I don’t know that the encyclical will be able to shed definitive light on that question. But perhaps some inferences can be made.

Let’s assume for a moment that my darkest concerns are borne out by more than the encyclical and other data . . . Therefore, what.

As a watchman on the wall, my concern would be that Roman Catholics who are truly in Love with Jesus, Father, Spirit would cleave all the more to God and loosen maybe !!!!TRADITION!!!! bound affections and death-grips on an edifice that DEFINITELY WILL BE consumed by the growing engulfment from hell.

That, as MarkOMalley has somewhat hinted at, such authentically faithful-TO-GOD RC’s will prepare their hearts etc. for whatever period of underground Christian life may be possible . . . that they not be caught asleep and clueless as the darkness descends.

I realize that there are RC’s hereon just as there are Penetcostals who think that their myopic constructions on Christian reality and the world at this time simply cannot conceive of such a thing being remotely possible. Some Pentecostals seem to think that nothing very significantly uncomfortable will occur to them prior to THE RAPTURE. Some RC’s are convinced that nothing will tarnish nor subsume the Vatican etc. etc. etc.

Scripture indicates otherwise.

I’m somewhat open to dialogue about a lot of this. However, a lot seems quite clearly set in Scripture—which for me equals set in stone. Certainly there is lack of specific clarity about a lot of things related thereto. However, the basic fact remains that the AC WILL BE in fairly thorough-going charge of the whole world—PARTICULARLY THE RELIGIOUS world for at least 3.5 years—and to some increasing degree for 7 years.

The degree of the oligarchy’s influence over the RELIGIOUS WORLD is already somewhat shocking when really looked at closely.

So, in a sense, I’m bothering THIS MUCH about this encyclical because I think it’s a good benchmark . . . a good mile post to examine regarding the above.

And, I think that looking at the seductive phrases used—whether intended as such by Paul VI th or taken on from the global gestalt of the time . . . looking at those phrases can be instructive for watching similar wordings increasingly descend on all of Christendom with increasing speed and weight.

I realize that some do and will always, short of a miracle, see me as a Vatican/RC hating basher. That will have to be their problem before God. God knows the truth is quite different—as do quite a number of RC’s.

I realize that some Prottys may be inclined to look down haughty RELIGIOUS noses and say—’Yeah, well, what can one expect of the RC’s, but such.’ They would be grossly in error and on thin ice with God to cop such an attitude. The same horrors are coming soon to a congregation near and hopefully dear to them, as well.

Anyway—back to the encyclical.

BLESSED BE THE BLOOD, THE FORGIVENESS, THE NAME, THE RESURRECTION LIFE AND WORD OF THE LORD.


36 posted on 05/24/2009 12:52:25 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Quix

Thank you for sharing your insights, dear brother in Christ!


46 posted on 05/24/2009 8:36:35 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Quix
As a watchman on the wall, my concern would be that Roman Catholics who are truly in Love with Jesus, Father, Spirit would cleave all the more to God and loosen maybe !!!!TRADITION!!!! bound affections and death-grips on an edifice that DEFINITELY WILL BE consumed by the growing engulfment from hell.

Translation: you want to pry Catholics away from the Catholic Church, because you are convinced it is, or is becoming, an instrument of Satan.

Scripture indicates otherwise.

Scripture flatly disagrees with you. Need I remind you of one little passage "You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

If you want to look at incipient apostasy in Christendom, I suggest you look at the Anglican Lambeth Conference of 1930, which broke from 2000 years of Christian moral teaching by legitimizing artificial contraception. Because of contraception, we have abortion; because of abortion, our culture and our nation are under divine judgment.

No dark hints of conspiracy theories required. It's all out there in the open, for those with eyes to see and ears to hear.

48 posted on 05/24/2009 11:21:57 PM PDT by Campion ("President Barack Obama" is an anagram for "An Arab-backed Imposter")
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