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To: Quix
First of all, thank you for taking the time to apparently go through the entire document. I appreciate you doing so, rather than depending upon somebody else's analysis of it.

It's late, so I won't be able to do your post justice, but here are a couple of things from the beginning. I hope to be able to delve into it after a few hours of shut-eye.

You quoted this passage:

. . . But since the Church does dwell among men, she has the duty "of scrutinizing the signs of the times and of interpreting them in the light of the Gospel." (14) Sharing the noblest aspirations of men and suffering when she sees these aspirations not satisfied, she wishes to help them attain their full realization. So she offers man her distinctive contribution: a global perspective on man and human realities.

And then you had the following comment: A couple of things stand out to me in this paragraph. “. . . signs of the times.” That’s a rather Pentecostal phrase! LOL. I wonder what his thinking was as he chose that phrase. Or does it mean something different in Latin than it does to Pentecostals in English?

First of all, Catholics, too believe in the End Times. We probably don't have the same interpretation as Pentacostals, but, as I've said before, we know that the persecution is coming...

Secondly, you notice the (14) in the quote? That corresponds to footnote 14. As a hint, whenever you read Catholic doctrinal documents, it is imperative that you know what was contained in the footnote.

In this case, it corresponded to a Pastoral Constitution issued by the Second Vatican Council, known as Gaudium et Spes. You can't read this document if you are not familiar with the quote where it was taken:

Inspired by no earthly ambition, the Church seeks but a solitary goal: to carry forward the work of Christ under the lead of the befriending Spirit. And Christ entered this world to give witness to the truth, to rescue and not to sit in judgment, to serve and not to be served.(2)

INTRODUCTORY STATEMENT THE SITUATION OF MEN IN THE MODERN WORLD

4. To carry out such a task, the Church has always had the duty of scrutinizing the signs of the times and of interpreting them in the light of the Gospel. Thus, in language intelligible to each generation, she can respond to the perennial questions which men ask about this present life and the life to come, and about the relationship of the one to the other. We must therefore recognize and understand the world in which we live, its explanations, its longings, and its often dramatic characteristics. Some of the main features of the modern world can be sketched as follows.

Today, the human race is involved in a new stage of history. Profound and rapid changes are spreading by degrees around the whole world. Triggered by the intelligence and creative energies of man, these changes recoil upon him, upon his decisions and desires, both individual and collective, and upon his manner of thinking and acting with respect to things and to people. Hence we can already speak of a true cultural and social transformation, one which has repercussions on man's religious life as well.

As happens in any crisis of growth, this transformation has brought serious difficulties in its wake. Thus while man extends his power in every direction, he does not always succeed in subjecting it to his own welfare. Striving to probe more profoundly into the deeper recesses of his own mind, he frequently appears more unsure of himself. Gradually and more precisely he lays bare the laws of society, only to be paralyzed by uncertainty about the direction to give it.

Never has the human race enjoyed such an abundance of wealth, resources and economic power, and yet a huge proportion of the worlds citizens are still tormented by hunger and poverty, while countless numbers suffer from total illiteracy. Never before has man had so keen an understanding of freedom, yet at the same time new forms of social and psychological slavery make their appearance. Although the world of today has a very vivid awareness of its unity and of how one man depends on another in needful solidarity, it is most grievously turn into opposing camps by conflicting forces. For political, social, economic, racial and ideological disputes still continue bitterly, and with them the peril of a war which would reduce everything to ashes. True, there is a growing exchange of ideas, but the very words by which key concepts are expressed take on quite different meanings in diverse ideological systems. Finally, man painstakingly searches for a better world, without a corresponding spiritual advancement.

Influenced by such a variety of complexities, many of our contemporaries are kept from accurately identifying permanent values and adjusting them properly to fresh discoveries. As a result, buffeted between hope and anxiety and pressing one another with questions about the present course of events, they are burdened down with uneasiness. This same course of events leads men to look for answers; indeed, it forces them to do so

And, yes, it should be patently obvious that the expression "signs of the times" refers to Matthew 16:3 (And in the morning, 'It will be stormy today, for the sky is red and threatening.' You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of the times.)

Now the remainder of the verbiage in the paragraph of Populorum Progressio that you cited should probably be read in light of the above quote.


You then go to talk about Humanism. One thing that we Americans do instinctively these days in insert (in parentheses) the word "secular" in front of that. That's not how the word is ever used in a Vatican document, unless it explicitly says "atheistic" or "secular" humanism.

The actual definition of "humanism" is, The historical revival of Classical culture, notably during the Renaissance circa 16th century; An ethical system that centers on humans and their values, needs, interests, abilities, dignity and freedom; especially used for a secular one, as an alterative to religious values; Humanitariasm.

So the big thing you should be thinking when you read "humanism" in a Vatican document is the dignity of human life.

Let me give you a couple of quotes from the Catechism that sort of highlight this:

I'll try to tackle this some more in the morning, but wanted to give you some feedback initially.

And let me stress that I am truly impressed that you actually took the time to go to this document.

20 posted on 05/23/2009 10:02:29 PM PDT by markomalley (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus)
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To: markomalley

Thanks for your kind words and amplifications and clarifications. Am happy to have read them. I’m encouraged by them.

Take your time.

I’m only half through with the document, myself.

I don’t think I’m going to get to any more of it tonight! LOL.

Prayers for your healing sleep toward wholeness and rejuvenation and a blessed Sunday to you and yours.


22 posted on 05/23/2009 10:25:02 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: markomalley

Welllll in terms of going through the doc . . .

LOL.

Someone sort of tossed it derisively-to-me in my lap. And, accused me of making things up about it.

And, I had posted a quote from it. So, it was only fitting that I go through it. Not done yet. LOL.


24 posted on 05/23/2009 10:27:42 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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