Posted on 05/23/2009 9:10:25 PM PDT by Quix
CERTAINLY NO offense taken at all.
I just wanted to do 2 things in response.
1. I wanted to be sure I benefitted as much as God would have me benefit from your wisdom and rebuke, exhortation.
2. I wanted to respond as authentically as I could in as much humility as I could about my sense of where God has me on such a razor blade thin line about such things in my life. I don't know that I succeeded in the latter (any more than I may have succeeded in 1. above), but I tried, hard.
Your points in the post above are well taken and have largely already been my . . . at least a strong integral part of my . . . guidelines, substrate, beliefs and even practices--whether it shows, or not.
My precise path is not your precise path nor anyone else's. And we are fully responsible . . . as fully as we are responsible for anything--for our own precise following of our own precise path, before God by His Grace and Spirit.
It would be far, far, FAR simpler to say that Betty Boop's perspective on all the above is Holy Spirit's precise and comprehensive perspective for Quix--end of story; end of discussion; go thou and do likewise etc. etc. etc.
However, as true as I can be--before God--that's NOT congruent with my experience of God in my life and HIS mandates for me.
CERTAINLY THE ISSUE OF JUDGMENT is a super critical one. And, it's probably one that all of us do well to keep in the constantly prayerful, constantly active file 24/7.
And, I'm keenly aware that my thrownness in the world . . . including particularly how I experience and perceive God's constructions for me on all those realities . . . gives plenty of opportunity for lots of folks to question how much I judge others vs am carnal, critical judgment FREE.
Is it carnal critical judgment to label OThugs "OThuga?" I think not. I think it's an accurate label well earned by his values and behavior. It's more, to me, an observation. It's akin to observing the sun at 12:00 noon and saying--Oh, it's noon and the sun is at it's peak.
In a sense that's a judgment. In a sense, it's merely an observation of "objective" fact--whatever that is.
You may have noticed that I have, for what a year plus--2 years plus--I don't recall . . . I have for an extended time been extremely circumspect in my fiesty comments towards RC's as well as toward reasonable Calvinist postings.
Nevertheless, on relatively rare occasions, when it has seemed warranted, I've also slapped a given post, wording, attitude up-side the head as being outrageous.
Is that a judgment of a personhood? I don't think so. I haven't felt it that way and haven't mentally construed it that way--at least not very often, if at all.
Usually, it's not rocket science to observe when something is worded in an outrageous way.
The observation that Christ had a right as God's Son to fiercely assault pride, arrogance, hypocrisy etc. on the part of the religious rulers 2000 years ago . . . is . . . to me . . . a very convenient and . . . unfitting out.
There is no Biblical exemption clause to that effect.
We are called to follow Him as He leads.
Certainly some leadings of Holy Spirit require, plausibly, more scrutiny than others. Instructions to be charitable, kind, compassionate, generous, patient, long suffering etc. would quite plausibly require less monitoring, scrutiny, prayerful screening than a fierce public rebuke.
On the other hand . . . IF one is practicing hearing God remotely as often and well as Scriptures instruct us all to do--MY SHEEP HEAR MY !!!VOICE!!!!, then it is quite plausible . . . that a given Spirit-led Believer might well hear any variety of instructions from Holy Spirit as accurately, one as the other. I'm not saying I'm, per se, THERE, yet . . . just that such a habitual success in hearing God more or less accurately would plausibly not entail more wax in one's spiritual ears for one category than for the other.
We are EVER MORE RAPIDLY AND EVER MORE COMPLETELY
EVEN NOW
AMIDST A VIGOROUS HARD FOUGHT !!!!WAR!!!!!
And the Spiritual warfare has ALWAYS BEEN the most critical of any warfare. And it is the most foundational of all warfare.
THERE IS CERTAINLY A PLACE for Jesus meek and mild.
YET, THAT IS NOT THE WHOLE JESUS--NOT OF SCRIPTURE; NOT OF REALITY; NOT OF LIFE; CERTAINLY NOT OF OUR ERA.
Most of the Evangelicals, including the one in my mirror, are loathe to sign-on wholeheartedly to the warfare mentality and realities. I can, yet have a hard time killing chickens, rabbits, deer . . . for needed food.
Yet, I know from lots of experience . . . that in many situations, Holy Spirit rises up within me MOST FIERCELY. And I begin looking around eagerly for the jawbone of an ass with which to slay some Philistines.
That's almost a shocking experience, even to me--kind of one of those experiences wherein one feels like one is standing outside one's body observing one's self do something very strange and foreign to one's normal self.
Therefore what?
Good question. LOL.
imho, ALL of us, probably Betty Boop and Alamo-Girl, included . . . will be called upon by God in coming months and near years . . . to be much more forceful, declarative, stern, even . . . to some . . . harsh . . . against forces of evil in the world, in and/or about brothers and sisters near and dear . . . and to the Body of Christ in one proportion or another.
Do I expect any of you to get it more perfectly than I do. Of course not. God alone is perfect.
I do expect us all to prayerfully walk our walk as well as we can, by God's Grace manage to to do that.
Sweetness and light OF GOD are wonderful.
Yet, as John and Paula Sanford assert in TRANSFORMATION OF THE INNER MAN . . .
Love without Truth is useless sentimentality.
Truth without Love is brutality.
We are called to walk in and dispense both.
And more often than some of us prefer, a piercingly pointed and sharp scalpel is the most loving thing possible; the most loving thing to fit the situation; the most loving thing to offer--regardless of whether it's perceived that way, or not.
In my current situation I know who the sons of the Devil are by their fruit. They used to be very "nice" people and "good" friends. The times of trying to reason with them is now over. All I say to them if I run in to the is maybe hello. Small talk would be very energy depleting. I will not argue with them. Does any born again person have any ideas what to say to a pharisee?
49 “I came to set fire to the world, and I wish it were already burning! 50 I have a baptism[a] to suffer through, and I feel very troubled until it is over.51 Do you think I came to give peace to the earth? No, I tell you, I came to divide it.52 From now on, a family with five people will be divided, three against two, and two against three. 53 They will be divided: father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law- (Jesus) Luke ch 12
Indeed. But there have been plenty of times lately when I've said to myself, this "Jesus meek and mild stuff is mere pablum for babies!" that there are times when not to turn the other cheek. We must be especially wise and circumspect in judging of such cases, for our "verdict" will likely redound on ourselves some day: We must never forget that Jesus Christ also wields a sword. Which is the sword of Truth and Judgment.
I have no "one-size-fits-all" answer to our present condundrum. Stand honestly and humbly before God in such cases might be good advice. (I suppose David definitely did that when he clocked Goliath. That's why "the little guy" beat the giant.)
I do prefer peace and light to chaos and obscurity, though we are definitely getting more of the latter than the former these days. I shall continue to pray for the end of controversy among the brethren, so that charity among Christians can be a beacon of Light and Love to the world.
May God ever bless you, dear brother in Him! May He continually bless you with His Grace and Light!
To God be the glory!
I . . .
AGREE WITH YOU ENTIRELY, DEAR SISTER (DITTO for Angel-Gal).
. . . AS I tend to do . . . an uncommon degree.
THANKS ENORMOUSLY
You are a persistent and unqualified blessing in my life.
PRAISE GOD for every contact I’m graced to have with you.
God’s richest wisdom, guidance, knowledge, provision, understanding, safety, peace, overcoming, intimacy with Him and with those who Love Him . . . be yours and those you love.
In His Name, Amen.
INDEED. QUITE SO.
Sigh.
END TIMES PING LIST PING . . . I’m not sure that this could be classed as humor, or not . . . so you can decide.
= = = =
What to say to a Pharisee?
I don’t know a 1-size fit’s all . . .
Some reasonable options, imho . . .
not in any order of reasonableness nor priority . . . only in the order they filtered out of that curious & mysterious space between my ears.
. . .
1. Get behind me, satan.
2. How’s your tomb white-wash going?
3. How’s the home team brood of vipers?
4. How’s the lying practice going?
5. Won any hypocrisy awards lately?
6. Oh, a new long flowing robe, I see!
7. Did you get your new trumpet for heralding public prayers, yet?
8. How many publicans, sinners and drunks were you able to avoid this week?
9. Did the widow and her two mites out-give you again this week?
10. How’s the voice lessons going for that riveting booming public prayer voice?
11. How’s Father Liar doing this week?
12. Did you find some good RELIGIOUS serfs to bear those burdens you’ve been loathe to touch, yet?
13. How many starving urchins were you able to chase out of your corn fields this week?
14. Is it true there’s a new Boomerang Credit Card for Pharisees only—from Australia? All public giving ends up automatically rescinded back into your account within 24 hours? Did you get yours yet?
15. No, I won’t pray for your only son to be raised from his death bed on the Sabbath. You said that was verbotten and I wouldn’t want to contribute to your hypocrisy.
Alternately . . .
16. Touch my wallet and there won’t be any more Pharisee piano playing in this congregation.
17. I’ve used as strong a bleach on your white robes as I can. But after I take them out of the drier, this black spot begins to appear and spread from about right over your heart. Where’s that weird stain come from?
18. How’s the sanctimonious gig going this week?
19. You seem to have that stubbornness, witchcraft, !!!!CONTROL!!!! FREAQUE thing down to an art. Did you get your PhD in it?
20. No. I’m fresh out of patience with flattery—going or coming. Move along, please. I’m awaiting THE RETURN OF THE KING.
OR MAYBE . . .
to a Pharisee . . . one might say . . .
A) I might tolerate listening to your personalized self-ego flattering blather but I need to go spin the lint from my drier.
B) Oh, my. Well, look at you. You know, you can have this whole look-out point to yourself for practicing your echo. My bus-load of teens and adults will be leaving immediately.
C) I’d consider doing lunch with you. However, my quota of hour long self-aggrandizement luncheon advertisements by Pharisees is full-up for the millennium.
D) This phone has recently been exorcised. You have exactly 3 microseconds to hang-up before Gabriel smacks you with an extra eternal torture.
E) I’m sure all your very erudite opinions are quite extensively annotated in hell. However, we don’t allow proud, pontifical, phony, plastic, prevaricating plagiarism, here.
I don’t know, but some say that because the Sadducees didn’t believe in resurrection, they were so Sadducee?
That’s what my mother always said, too! LOL.
Seems a strange response but it was powerful.
Silence can also be effective at times.
In an earlier email correspondence with him I said, "Your "father" must be proud of you" His earthly father has already passed away.
Some think this is judging, It is not. Judging only happens when you think you are better than someone else (You then are a pharisee). We are all in the same boat, a bunch of sinners who need a Savior.
After you are born again you are in God's soup kitchen, humble beggars for grace. With maturity with growth "in" Christ Jesus, as Quix's fruits demonstrate, the log is removed from your eye. This log is actually your judgmental flesh attitude. Then we can see clearly to remove the speck from the weeds and wheat in our local church body.
Meek and mild have their place, silence has a place and "Quix quotes" have a place. The Holy Spirit will decide the proper response for all the people you meet.
Excellent responses.
. . .
I suppose a pause . . . and a cold, silent look in their eyes could be significant, too.
. . .
How about . . .
“Say, is your relationship with God as dead and manipulated as your relationships with most of the people in your life?”
“It appears that you like to be in !!!!CONTROL!!!! of all your relationships. How’s that working out in your ‘relationship’ with God?”
“I sometimes wonder, what would God have to do to you, in order to break through with a genuine, alive RELATIONSHIP. Seems to me he’d durn near need to kill you just to get your attention.”
Anyway—I think you have a better idea.
Blessings,
Am quite humbled by your very spiritual wisdom from Him.
Thanks tons.
All . . . assuming that I’ve got the simple math right . . .
There are now 1,123 donors to this FREEPATHON.
I think that = 0.2123% of a million FREEPERS AND LURKERS.
A rather pathetic percentage donating, imho.
I suspect virtually all those on this thread have donated. However, let us encourage those we know to be sure they have.
$5.00/ month is probably less than most FREEPERS spend on fast food/week.
FREEREPUBLIC IS WORTH AT LEAST THAT!
The problem, imho, with only a mild response, or small talk to be nice to pharisees, is it minimizes the risk they are in. It enables them. Is this a loving response?
My opinion is that the sons of the Devil (pharisees)are most active in the churches, Why would they waste their time on the children of wrath (unbelievers).
I'll tell you one more experience how pharisees work in the church. One time I was privileged to observe my Pastor witness to the Chiaphas pharisee I mentioned, I could see how lost he was in his eyes, I felt the Holy Spirit in the room, an exciting break through felt imminent. Satan sent in an other of the main pharisees and broke it up.
Only a mild response leaves out church discipline. This to me is the reason most churches today are in fact dead. The gospel is compromised to be "nice".
I agree with you entirely.
But for now, back to bed.
Maybe more later.
Thx.
1John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God,
INDEED! INDEED!
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