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To: Godzilla
Are you unlearned about the context in which the book of Galatians was written as well as the teachings of Paul in general? In a word - YES I believe Paul would say this - for he did! From chapter 1 it is evident that Paul is writing about a false teaching entering the Galatian church (1:6). The characteristics of this false teaching are documented in verses 1:6-9; 2:4-5; 3:1-5; 4:17; 5:10, 12; and 6:12-13. These have been properly identified as Judizers - those seeking to place believers under the obligations of the law and its requirements.

For the most part you're right. But you don't understand the context of the times. Paul frequently wrote about a heretical religious movement that seemed to be a blend of Judaism and gnosticism. It had elements of Judaism mixed with elements of paganism.

Galatians is aimed primarily at gentiles:

Gal 5:2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
Gal 5:3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law:

Gentiles. The uncircumcised. Keep that in mind.

Gal 4:8 But then, indeed, when you did not know God, you served those which by nature are not gods.

Gentiles, not jews, served those who by nature are not gods. They didn't know God.

Gal 4:9 But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage?

They weren't Jews. They were gentiles. Paul compares their situation to returning to the weak and beggarly elements they knew before.

Gal 4:10 You observe days and months and seasons and years.

Whatever these were, they were NOT God's holy days. In the new testament there a specific greek words that are always used to distinguish and identify God's holy days. The word used for a holy day is (transliterated) "heorte". This is used consistently. Sabbaton or its derivatives is used to refer to the sabbath. Neither of these words is present here. Paul wasn't talking about the holy days.

There was a sect of Judaism that was teaching that you needed to observe a bunch of man made regulations and commands to be "saved". Non-scriptural things.

The same thing was happening in Colossae. This heresy is more clear there.

For example:

Col 2:8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.

Here it's clearer. Whatever Paul is describing has the characteristics of "tradition of men". "Basic principles of the world". "Not according to Christ.". Christ created the holy days. They are commands of God, not a tradition of man. They are basic principles of Godly worship, not of the world.

Col 2:20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations—
Col 2:21 "Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,"
Col 2:22 which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men?

Again, Paul was smart enough to know that the Lord's holy days and commands were scriptural, not "commandments and doctrines of men." Likewise his audience.

So while there were certainly elements of Judaism, there were also strong elements of other beliefs mixed in.

Judaism itself was far off the tracks.

Paul and other early Christians rightly saw which elements were not scriptural and which were. For example, a big issue was that gentiles were considered "unclean" under Judaism. This is completely non-scriptural. It took a supernatural vision to convince even Peter of this.

I think you would be well served to study Judaism currently and at the time of Christ and see exactly how much of it is based on tradition and not scripture.

242 posted on 04/11/2009 3:59:23 PM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: DouglasKC
Galatians is aimed primarily at gentiles:

It would be safe to say the church at Galatia was primarily composed of gentiles.

Gentiles. The uncircumcised. Keep that in mind.

Well in mind. The act of circumcision belonged to what - gentile religion - or rather Judizers - keep that in mind.

Gentiles, not jews, served those who by nature are not gods. They didn't know God.

Gal 4:9 But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage?

They weren't Jews. They were gentiles. Paul compares their situation to returning to the weak and beggarly elements they knew before.

Here is where your train of logic derails. You are shifting the focus onto the believers in Galatia - Paul is focusing on the false teachers and what they were trying to sway them to - return to bondage under the ceremonial laws and customs of the Judazers. These false teachers were not trying to sway them back into idolatry.

Gal 4:10 You observe days and months and seasons and years.

Whatever these were, they were NOT God's holy days. In the new testament there a specific greek words that are always used to distinguish and identify God's holy days. The word used for a holy day is (transliterated) "heorte". This is used consistently. Sabbaton or its derivatives is used to refer to the sabbath. Neither of these words is present here. Paul wasn't talking about the holy days.

This is not hard Doug, but you make it so. Compare to Col 2:16. The days are the Jewish Sabbaths. The months are the new moons; the times are the Jewish festivals; the years are the Sabbatical years. In observing these there was legal bondage to an obsolete system. As you've said over and again, these were primarily gentiles - they would be relatively ignorant of Jewish customs and holy days. Paul objected to Gentiles taking to them as a means of salvation. This is a very appropriate means to describe the Jewish calendar related activities to a non-jew. Furthermore, the word heorte is not found in this verse. It is used in Col 2:16 in conjunction with a "holyday" (the only translated occurrence in teh NT) in context with sabbaton , and 26 other occurrences it is translated "feast". That is a very weak argument to base you doctrine upon.

Circumcision
Observance of Jewish feasts and days of obligation as a condition of being a Christian
The nullification of the requirements placed upon gentile believers

So lets follow this through. 4:12-14 Paul reminds them that when he lived among them as a gentile, not as one under the Mosaic law. 4:21-31 Paul warns about the errors in following works over faith.

There was a sect of Judaism that was teaching that you needed to observe a bunch of man made regulations and commands to be "saved". Non-scriptural things.

Interesting that you choose to follow Paul's warning against Judiazers in Colossae, but ignore the same here in Galatians - very inconsistent - almost a pick and choose method of bible interpretation.

I think you would be well served to study Judaism currently and at the time of Christ and see exactly how much of it is based on tradition and not scripture.

I have done some reading on the Jewish customs and traditions at the time of Christ and the early church. Modern Judaism is removed from that era by thousands of years and the loss of the temple. Many bible commentators and scholars have done much more, and they unanimously recognize that the false teachers at Galatia were teaching that one had to become a Jew and follow ceremonial law and customs in order to be Christians. This is based upon a fuller study of Paul's writing, and in nearly every letter he warns about this. Something to keep in mind.

Bottom line here Doug, is that you erroneously interpret Galatians as Paul's letter by trying to have it focus on their behavior in gross contrast to what the book really addresses, and that is false teaching from Judiazers. Once you do that, you will see that your interpretation of that passage is flawed because you've taken it out of context. This is evident from the decision you are silent upon from Acts
Ac 21:25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

They were to be free from the obligations of Jewish ceremonial law and customs. Pretty simple and straightforward and saves taking a lot of good scripture out of context.

243 posted on 04/11/2009 4:46:45 PM PDT by Godzilla (Galatians 4:16 So iz i ur enemi now becz i tellded u teh troof?)
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