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To: Cvengr

God doesn’t chastise His flock when they are faithful to Him. Unlike times of tribulation in the past cast upon believers by those both out of fellowship and unbelievers, but the demonically influenced and demonically possessed, this Great Tribulation is described as directly caused by God Himself.
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WHEN did Satan become more powerful than God EVER? The enemy does NOT call the shots. People follow him but he is not in control and never has been.

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Fruchtenbaum lists 3 reasons for the Great Tribulation in his study of Scripture.

1) To make an end of wickedness and wicked ones. (Is 13:9 & Is 24:19-20)

2) To bring about worldwide revival. (Rev 7:1-17

3) To break the Power of the Holy People. (Dan 12:5-7 & Ez 20:33-38)
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1) I’ll agree with this, but that can be accomplished with a believer standing right beside them. As a matter of fact it states the wicked are removed to where you find vultures...I don’t want to go there.

2) This can’t be possible according to Rapture teaching as the Holy Spirit is removed from the earth...No Holy Spirit..no revival...or does He come back? Amazing..a ping pong Holy Spirit...man just bats Him around to where it fits man’s doctrine.

3) Will have to dig into this one...to short a phrase.. to easy to take out of context.

Good night..:)


47 posted on 04/06/2009 9:11:37 PM PDT by briarbey b (There is nothing new under the sun.)
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To: briarbey b

FWIW, I’ve found studying these doctrines, and those provided by authors such as Fruchtenbaum, or Pentecost, to be outstanding ways to focus on portions of Scripture, letting God do all the work in sanctifying my understanding of His Word.

In regards to the Holy Spirit being removed in the Great Tribulation (I believe there is another phrase used with explicit meaning, but the person is the same and the removal is the same, by His Sovereign Decision.),...

this aspect has led me to consider what might actually be happening during the Great Tribulation.

Note, that generally speaking, and some assert explicitly, the Church Age is unique, in that no other age in human history has God the Holy Spirit indwelt the body of each and every believer.

This doesn’t mean there haven’t been nor will not be believers in other ages.

We frequently slip into thinking all other ages of mankind are used in His Plan, in the same fashion the Church is used, but this isn’t accurate.

The point is not to argue secondary doctrines, but to note that Scripture simply points to the removal of the Comforter/Restrainer, and a Remnant is provided for by God.

IMHO, there might be a significant linkage to what the ‘abomination of desolation’ means, the mark of the beast, the identification of the Temple where the son of perdition is revealed, the Great Apostasy, and why God the Holy Spirit would be removed, and why God the Son opens the seals and returns at that time.

Think about it. There are believers and unbelievers all throughout Christiandom who have committed far more heinous acts and devoted themselves to the most antiChristian campaigns, yet have also found their way to faith in Christ by His work when compared to those who receive the mark of the beast.

Thomas himself denied Christ three times before our Lord was crucified, but the mark of the beast, simply to buy and sell, to eat food, to survive in an economy, is sufficient to result in later being cast into the Lake of Fire.

IMHO, the identification with the mark and that destination is indeed true, but not on the grounds of morality, nor in the type of sin being performed. IMHO, there is something unspoken there, that doesn’t need to be spoken, which accounts for this.


54 posted on 04/06/2009 9:28:43 PM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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