***It seems from here that you are having things in more than one fashion. The “Church Fathers” acknowledged Revelation as inspired, and you seem to take exception to that fact.***
The consensus patrem was very divided on Revelation and there is much of the Church that still is wary of Revelation today, not the least because it is written in Jewish apocalyptic text and is the most difficult to understand of all Scripture, even more difficult than Paul’s works. There is still much conjecture as to how much is symbolic and how much is speculative prophecy or historicist recounting.
There may be a good reason for that....
The rest of this post is from Freeper 'Stingray' back in 2001 (I saved it back then as it was very interesting to say the least)...
"Note the following:
| “...I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last...” And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. Revelation 1 |
| “To the angel of the church in Ephesus write: These are the words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand and walks among the seven golden lampstands:” Revelation 2:1 |
I did a search of the O.T. to see if there had ever been any mention of the “seven stars” there. Not only did I find a passage, but it’s in the book of Amos! Look!
| “Seek the Lord and live, lest he break out like fire in the house of Joseph, and it devour, with none to quench it for Bethel, O you who turn justice to wormwood, and cast down righteousness to the earth! He who made the Pleiades and Orion, and turns deep darkness into the morning, and darkens the day into night, who calls for the waters of the sea, and pours them out upon the surface of the earth, the Lord is his name, who makes destruction flash forth against the strong, so that destruction comes upon the fortress.” Amos 5:6-9 |
Now look at this:
| Pleiades , in astronomy, famous open star cluster in the constellation Taurus; Six stars are easily visible to the naked eye—Alcyone (the brightest), Electra, Celaeno, Sterope, Maia, and Taygete. Known as the Seven Sisters, this group was named by the Greeks for the seven daughters of Atlas and Pleione; the seventh Pleiad was, according to legend, lost or in hiding. Many faint stars associated with the other six are visible with the telescope; one of these stars may have been much brighter and visible to the naked eye in ancient times, thus accounting for the many early references to seven stars. |
And again, from Strong’s:
| Strong’s Ref. # 3598 Romanized Kiymah Pronounced kee-maw’ from the same as HSN3558; a cluster of stars, i.e. the Pleiades: KJV—Pleiades, seven stars. |
The more I dig into the parallel passages and imagery between Revelation and the Old Testament prophets, the more thoroughly convinced I am that the message in the Book of Revelation is not for Gentile Christians, but for “End-time” Jews. Read the whole chapter of Amos 5! It’s all about the prophet telling the children of Israel to straighten up their act, or terrible judgement would be visited upon them. Look at the message to some of those same “churches” in Revelation 2 & 3! It’s the same message! Finally, look at this, from Revelation 1:
| “I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea. And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter; The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. Revelation 1:10-20 |
”Woe to you who long for the day of the LORD! Why do you long for the day of the LORD? That day will be darkness, not light.”It will be as though a man fled from a lion only to meet a bear, as though he entered his house and rested his hand on the wall only to have a snake bite him.”Will not the day of the LORD be darkness, not light— pitch-dark, without a ray of brightness?”Amos 5:18-20 |
Again, I am convinced (but not yet dogmatically so) that the message in the Book of Revelation is not for Gentile Christians (we will be taken out of harm’s way) but for Great Tribulation Jews. And the message is clear:
”Here, within these pages, is your Messiah, and He will save you from the impending ‘day of the Lord’ if you repent and believe.” |
In truth, Revelation is a book that every Jew ought to be reading now, before it’s too late."
End Stinray's post.
*If* the rapture is pre-trib the above makes a lot of sense.
God bless