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To: Star Traveler
You said:

Having said that, it’s also apparent (at least to me) that we can know that we are in the “time of the end” — at which time the Rapture will be happening “soon” (but, an “unknown soon”...).

I’m afraid that this (i.e. your article referenced) would go against the teaching of the “imminence” of the Rapture.

"Imminence" is a mine field.

Those who teach an "always imminent (for the past 2000 years) rapture" are easily defeated. This is simply not true. Both Paul and Peter predicted their own deaths and by doing so showed that they KNEW they weren't going to make the rapture.

Instead, it is helpful to use the verse that makes us (in 2009) know that a rapture IS imminent.

2 Thess. 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

There are two signs that PREcede the Rapture: Apostasy and the revealing of the anti-christ.

Apostasy is clearly going on.

The only sign (PREceding the rapture) left is the revealing of the anti-christ.

Now "reveal" does not mean that he "tears off a mask and declares himself to be God" or anything like that. It simply means that a majority of Saints will (at once) recognize that this man IS the anti-christ. I suspect this will be on television and he will say something or do something that will have the Saints watching horrified. (While the rest of the world ignores it.)

...then nothing is left to wait for and the rapture could take place within those seconds of recognition.

(pure speculation here)
We may already know/see a man who WILL be the anti-christ. But he hasn't been revealed yet. (/speculation)

1. Please note that not a single Apostle suspected Judas as becoming the betrayer of Jesus and they all suspected themselves as potential candidates.

2. Judas was named amongst the 12.

3. The only other time "the son of perdition" is used in the Bible is to describe Judas.

184 posted on 03/21/2009 11:27:24 AM PDT by invoman
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To: invoman

Will have to get back on this; on the road for a week or so and posting on phone. Y’all keep up the good discussion, though... :-)


188 posted on 03/22/2009 9:59:36 PM PDT by Star Traveler
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To: invoman
The only sign (PREceding the rapture) left is the revealing of the anti-christ.

Now "reveal" does not mean that he "tears off a mask and declares himself to be God" or anything like that. It simply means that a majority of Saints will (at once) recognize that this man IS the anti-christ. I suspect this will be on television and he will say something or do something that will have the Saints watching horrified. (While the rest of the world ignores it.)

...then nothing is left to wait for and the rapture could take place within those seconds of recognition.

(pure speculation here) We may already know/see a man who WILL be the anti-christ. But he hasn't been revealed yet. (/speculation)

I guess we'll know for sure when Obama agress to a 7 year peace treaty with Israel ;)

197 posted on 03/23/2009 8:08:11 PM PDT by mountn man (The pleasure you get from life, is equal to the attitude you put into it.)
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To: invoman

The more I’ve studied this, the more convinced I become that the revelation of the son of perdition will be much more significant than observing behavior on television.

Note that both the Great Apostasy and the son of perdition being revealed are required prior to the day of Christ. (2ndThes 2:3)

Focus might first be laid on studies of these issues, when they occur, how they occur, why they occur.

The Great Apostasy is simply a falling away from fellowship with God, but on a broad scale. We too often associate apostasy with religious movements following some flavor of heresy, but Scripture is much simpler in its description. APOSTSIA is a separation or falling away, also associated with a divorce.

Now also consider the man of sin being revealed. In one sense, this might be something slight, which all those who attempt to label the AntiChrist prior to that revelation tend to grasp. On the other hand, the revelation is likely to be so incredibly obvious and significant that it gives basis to comments such as, “who could possibly oppose him!”.

From my perspective, his identity will be broadcast, but not in the sense most people associate broadcast media.

Technology continues to advance, and today we are and have been advancing in neurological research into areas of mapping the brain, identifying mind-brain causality and have developed mechanisms to perform 2-way communication neurologically bypassing many conventional primary sensory mechanisms.

Why do we bow our head and close our eyes when we pray in large assemblies?

The issue is simply for privacy. We politely respect the thinking processes of our fellow believers and control our behavior so as not to interfere with another believer’s efforts to return to Him or to have fellowship with God.

What would be the modus operendi of an Adversary. Rather than encouraging brethren to remain in fellowship with Christ, he might perform any number of tactics to interrupt or counterfeit a relationship with God.

If technological mechanisms are created to interrupt the thinking processes of believers when they perform the duties implicit from 1st John 1:9, and if this were implemented on a large scale, then the first stage of fomenting a Great Apostasy would be laid. It wouldn’t matter what sin a believer slipped into, the more significant issue would be the interruption of his returning back into fellowship with God through faith in Christ by the confession of sin to God through faith in Christ.

The second stage would likely follow by studying the intentions of the Adversary. From Job, we see that when he declared the 5 ‘I wills’, immediately prior to being cast from heaven, one of those was to make himself like God. The Adversary has revealed on consequent degeneracy of the sinful state, namely to not only rebel from God, but to attempt to counterfeit what God provides and to assume His authority and glory.

If it is possible to perform the technological advances of stage 1 above, then a later stage naturally falls into place, where the powers which implement such operations, then proceed to declare themselves as God themselves.

It might be noted that the son of perdition seats himself in the temple of God. Ever since the veil was rent in two after Calgary, the Temple or the place for God to dwell is now IN each and every believer, established upon the indwelling of God the Holy Spirit. There are no sacred buildings in the Church Age, but there remains a location where God indwells, a tabernacle, a Shekinah Glory is sometimes manifest, namely in the body of each and every believer.

Indwelling is different than fellowship. Indwelling is purely at the volition of God, by His Sovereignty, He chooses to indwell man. Never is the believer commanded to be indwelt by the Holy Spirit, because God the Holy Spirit solely determines where He shall dwell. We are commanded to remaining fellowship with Him, not to grieve the Holy Spirit.

IMHO, everything which we allow here on earth is freed in heaven and that which we disallow is bound in heaven. Just as we might allow a situation where somebody is able to interrupt our thinking and possibly encroach upon our privacy in the temple of our bodies, likewise a very real temple also exists in heaven, wherein similar encroachment might be attempted.

Scripture well discusses the measurements of the later Temple and it is a real dwelling place.

IMHO, the apostasy and abomination of desolation might very well be activities which occur in our thinking, in our soul, in our mind. Can one imagine how to combat an Adversary who is able to enter into your thinking and interrupt your thinking from returning into fellowship with God? One simple solution is to remain in fellowship with God through faith in Christ in all things.

This makes very good sense in also explaining how Israel might enter into a covenant with the AntiChrist, and later recognize him as the son of perdition in such wide numbers.

Something as earthshattering has having a neurological perception smack the believer from somebody pretending to be God, but who is not Him, would seem to be one of the few events which could so quickly unify Israel.

It’s also interesting to note that if such technological advances occur, it appears they are continued to be used in the Millennium when all our hearts and minds are rewritten with the Word of God, so that we no longer will need to be teaching one another.

Just as an Adversary might attempt to use such tools to exalt Himself, our Lord would allow good works to continue through faith in Him, not artificially creating a new world, but still entering into a new phase or age of providing for us.


210 posted on 03/30/2009 2:49:29 AM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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