The Rapture [RAPTURE CAUCUS]

What is it? Who will it affect? When is it most likely to take place?
by Dr. David R. Reagan
http://www.lamblion.com/about_staff_reagan.php

The promise is that someday very soon, at the blowing of a trumpet and the shout of an archangel, Jesus will appear in the sky and take up His Church, living and dead, to Heaven.

The term "Rapture" comes from a Latin word, "rapio," that means "to catch up, to snatch away, or to take out." It is, in turn, a translation of the Greek word, "harpazo."

So, "Rapture" is a Biblical word that comes right out of the Latin Vulgate translation of the Bible. The word is found in 1 Thessalonians 4:17. In the New American Standard Version, the English phrase, "caught up," is used. The same phrase is used in the King James and New International Versions.

The concept of the Rapture was not revealed to the Old Testament prophets because it is a promise to the New Testament Church and not to the saints of God who lived before the establishment of the Church. Jesus will return as a bridegroom for His bride, and that bride consists only of Church Age saints.

The saints of Old Testament times will be resurrected at the end of the Tribulation and not at the time of the Rapture of the Church. Daniel reveals this fact in Daniel 12:1-2 where he says that the saints of that age will be resurrected at the end of the "time of distress."

The first clear mention of the Rapture in Scripture is found in the words of Jesus recorded in John 14:1-4. Jesus said, "I will come again, and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also."

The most detailed revelation of the actual events related to the Rapture is given by Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. He says that when Jesus appears, the dead in Christ (Church Age saints) will be resurrected and caught up first. Then, those of us who are alive in Christ will be translated "to meet the Lord in the air."

Paul mentions the Rapture again in 1 Corinthians 15 — his famous chapter on the resurrection of the dead: "Behold, I tell you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet" (verses 51-52).

Paul's reference here to being changed is an allusion to the fact that the saints will receive glorified bodies that will be imperishable, immortal, and perfected (1 Corinthians 15:42-44, 50-55 and Isaiah 35:5-6).

To summarize, these passages teach that the shout of an archangel and the blowing of a trumpet will herald the sudden appearance of Jesus in the heavens (1 Thessalonians 4:16). The dead in Christ will be resurrected and rise up to meet the Lord in the sky. Then, those saints who are alive will be "caught up" to the Lord. Paul concludes his description in 1 Thessalonians 4 by encouraging his readers to "comfort one another with these words."

And truly the Rapture is a comforting thought! Consider the promises contained in the concept of the Rapture. Jesus will bring with Him the spirits of those who have died in Him (1 Thessalonians 4:14). He will resurrect their bodies in a great miracle of re-creation; He will reunite their bodies with their spirits; and He will then glorify their bodies, making them immortal. And those believers who are living will not even taste death. Rather, they will be caught up to the Lord, and in transit, they will be translated from mortal to immortal.

All my life I have heard that there are two things no one can avoid: taxes and death. Well, that is not true. According to 1 Thessalonians 4, a whole generation of believers will escape death. Taxes appear to be the only inevitability!

The most controversial aspect of the Rapture is its timing. Some place it at the end of the Tribulation, making it one and the same event as the Second Coming. Others place it in the middle of the Tribulation. Still others believe that it will occur at the beginning of the Tribulation.

The reason for these differing viewpoints is that the exact time of the Rapture is not precisely revealed in scripture. It is only inferred. There is, therefore, room for honest differences of opinion, and lines of fellowship should certainly not be drawn over differences regarding this point, even though it is an important point.

Those who place the timing at the end of the Tribulation usually base their argument on two parables in Matthew 13 and on the Lord's Olivet Discourse in Matthew 24.

In Matthew 24 the Lord portrays His gathering of the saints as an event that will take place "immediately after the tribulation of those days" (Matthew 24:29). This certainly sounds like a post-Tribulation Rapture. But it must be kept in mind that the book of Matthew was written to the Jews, and therefore the recording of Jesus' speech by Matthew has a distinctively Jewish flavor to it as compared to Luke's record of the same speech.

Note, for example, Matthew's references to Judea and to Jewish law regarding travel on the Sabbath (Matthew 24:15-20). These are omitted in Luke's account. Instead, Luke speaks of the saints looking up for deliverance "to escape all these things" when the end time signs "begin to take place" (Luke 21:28, 36). The saints in Matthew are instructed to flee from Judea and hide. The saints in Luke are told to look up for deliverance.

It appears, therefore, that Matthew and Luke are speaking of two different sets of saints. The saints in Matthew's account are most likely Jews who receive Jesus as their Messiah during the Tribulation. The saints in Luke are those who receive Christ before the Tribulation begins. Most of those who accept the Lord during the Tribulation will be martyred (Revelation 7:9-14). Those who live to the end will be gathered by the angels of the Lord (Matthew 24:31).

The parable of the wheat and tares (Matthew 13:24-30) and the parable of the dragnet (Matthew 13:47-50) can be explained in the same way. They refer to a separation of saints and sinners that will take place at the end of the Tribulation. The saints are those who receive Jesus as their Savior during the Tribulation (Gentile and Jew) and who live to the end of that awful period.

The Bible clearly teaches that the Rapture is an event that is separate and apart from the Second Coming. The two simply cannot be combined into one event.

There are variations of the mid-Tribulation Rapture concept. The most common is that the Church will be taken out in the exact middle of the Tribulation, at the point in time when the Antichrist is revealed.

This concept is based upon a statement in 1 Corinthians 15:52 which says that the Rapture will occur at the blowing of "the last trumpet." This trumpet is then identified with the seventh trumpet of the trumpet judgments in the book of Revelation. Since the blowing of the seventh trumpet is recorded in Revelation 11, the mid-point of the Tribulation, the conclusion is that the Rapture must occur in the middle of the Tribulation.

But there are two problems with this interpretation. The first is that the last trumpet of 1 Corinthians 15 is blown for believers whereas the seven trumpets of Revelation 8, 9 and 11 are sounded for unbelievers. The Revelation trumpets have no relevance for the Church. The last trumpet of 1 Corinthians 15 is a trumpet for the righteous. The last trumpet for the unrighteous is the one described in Revelation 11.

Another problem with this interpretation is that the passage in Revelation 11 that portrays the sounding of the seventh trumpet is a "flash forward" to the end of the Tribulation. Flash forwards are very common in the book of Revelation. They occur after something terrible is described in order to assure the reader that everything is going to turn out all right when Jesus returns at the end of the Tribulation.

Thus, the eighth and ninth chapters of Revelation, which describe the horrors of the trumpet judgments, are followed immediately by a flash forward in chapter 10 that pictures the return of Jesus in victory at the end of the Tribulation. The mid-Tribulation action resumes in chapter 11 with a description of the killing of the two great prophets of God by the Antichrist. Then, to offset that terrible event, we are presented with another flash forward, beginning with verse 15. The seventh trumpet is sounded and we find ourselves propelled forward to the end of the Tribulation when "the kingdom of the world becomes the kingdom of our Lord."

The point is that the seventh trumpet of Revelation relates to the end of the Tribulation and not the middle. It is the same trumpet that is referred to in Matthew 24:31, the trumpet that will be blown to announce the Second Coming of Jesus. It is therefore no basis for an argument in behalf of a mid-Tribulation Rapture.

A variation of the mid-Tribulation Rapture is the pre-wrath Rapture concept that places the Rapture at the beginning of the last quarter of the Tribulation, about five and a half years into the Tribulation.

The argument for this view is that the Church is promised protection only from the wrath of God and not the wrath of Man or of Satan. It is then argued that only the bowl judgments in the last quarter of the Tribulation (Revelation 16) represent the wrath of God.

But the argument for this view disintegrates when you consider two facts. First, it is Jesus Himself who breaks the seals that launch each of the seal judgments recorded in Revelation 6. These judgments occur at the beginning of the Tribulation. Second, the seven angels who blow the trumpets that initiate each of the trumpet judgments are given their trumpets at the throne of God (Revelation 8:2).

All the judgments of Revelation are clearly superintended by God. That is the reason we are told in Revelation 15:1 that the bowl judgments at the end of the Tribulation will finish the wrath of God, not begin His wrath.

I believe the best inference of Scripture is that the Rapture will occur at the beginning of the Tribulation. The most important reason I believe this has to do with the issue of imminence.

Over and over in Scripture we are told to watch for the appearing of the Lord. We are told "to be ready" (Matthew 24:44), "to be on the alert" (Matthew 24:42), "to be dressed in readiness" (Luke 12:35), and to "keep your lamps alight" (Luke 12:35). The clear force of these persistent warnings is that Jesus can appear at any moment.

Only the pre-Tribulation concept of the Rapture allows for the imminence of the Lord's appearing for His Church. When the Rapture is placed at any other point in time, the imminence of the Lord's appearing is destroyed because other prophetic events must happen first.

For example, if the Rapture is going to occur in mid-Tribulation, then why should I live looking for the Lord's appearing at any moment? I would be looking instead for an Israeli peace treaty, the rebuilding of the Temple, and the revelation of the Antichrist. Then and only then could the Lord appear.

This raises the issue of what we are to be looking for. Nowhere are believers told to watch for the appearance of the Antichrist. On the contrary, we are told to watch for Jesus Christ. In Titus 2:13 Paul says we are to live "looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus." Likewise, Peter urges us to "fix our hope completely on the grace to be brought to us at the revelation of Jesus Christ" (1 Peter 1:13). John completes the apostolic chorus by similarly urging us to "fix our hope on Him" at His appearing (1 John 3:2-3).

Only Matthew speaks of watching for the Antichrist (Matthew 24:15), but he is speaking to the Jews living in Israel in the middle of the Tribulation when the Antichrist desecrates the rebuilt Temple.

Another argument in behalf of a pre-Tribulation Rapture has to do with the promises of God to protect the Church from His wrath. As has already been demonstrated, the book of Revelation shows that the wrath of God will be poured out during the entire period of the Tribulation.

The Word promises over and over that the Church will be delivered from God's wrath. Romans 5:9 says that "we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him [Jesus]." 1 Thessalonians 1:10 states that we are waiting "for His Son from heaven... who will deliver us from the wrath to come." The promise is repeated in 1 Thessalonians 5:9 — "God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ."

Some argue that God could supernaturally protect the Church during the Tribulation. Yes, He could. In fact, He promises to do just that for the 144,000 Jews who will be sealed as bond-servants at the beginning of the Tribulation (Revelation 7:1-8).

But God's promise to the Church during the Tribulation is not one of protection but one of deliverance. Jesus said we would "escape" the horrors of the Tribulation (Luke 21:3-6). Paul says Jesus is coming to "deliver" us from God's wrath (1 Thessalonians 1:10).

There are several prophetic types that seem to affirm the concept of deliverance from Tribulation.

Take Enoch for example. He was a prophet to the Gentiles who was raptured out of the world before God poured out His wrath in the great flood of Noah's time. Enoch appears to be a type of the Gentile Church that will be taken out of the world before God pours out His wrath again. If so, then Noah and his family are a type of the Jewish remnant that will be protected through the Tribulation.

Another Old Testament symbolic type which points toward a pre-Tribulation Rapture is the experience of Lot and his family. They were delivered out of Sodom and Gomorrah before those cities were destroyed.

The Apostle Peter alludes to both of these examples in his second epistle. He states that if God spared Noah and Lot, then He surely "knows how to rescue the godly from trial and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment" (2 Peter 2:4-9).

Another beautiful prophetic type is to be found in the Jewish wedding traditions of Jesus' time. After the betrothal, the groom would return to his father's house to prepare a wedding chamber for his bride. He would return for his bride at an unexpected moment, so the bride had to be ready constantly. When he returned, he would take his bride back to his father's house to the chamber he had prepared. He and his bride would then be sealed in the chamber for seven days. When they emerged, a great wedding feast would be celebrated.

Likewise, Jesus has returned to Heaven to prepare a place for His bride, the Church. When He returns for His bride, He will take her to His Father's heavenly home. There He will remain with His bride for seven years (the duration of the Tribulation). The period will end with "the marriage supper of the Lamb" described in Revelation 19. Thus the seven days in the wedding chamber point prophetically to the seven years that Jesus and His bride will remain in Heaven during the Tribulation.

Speaking of Revelation, the structure of that book also implies a pre-Tribulation Rapture in a symbolic sense.

The first three chapters focus on the Church. Chapter 4 begins with the door of Heaven opening and John being raptured from the Isle of Patmos to the throne of God in Heaven. The Church is not mentioned thereafter until Revelation 19:7-9 when it is portrayed as the "bride of Christ" in Heaven with Jesus celebrating the "marriage supper of the Lamb." At Revelation 19:11 the door of Heaven opens again, and Jesus emerges riding a white horse on His way to earth, followed by His Church (Revelation 19:14).

The rapture of the Apostle John in Revelation 4 appears to be a symbolic type of the Rapture of the Church. Note that it is initiated by the cry of a voice that sounds like the blowing of a trumpet (Revelation 4:1). Since the Tribulation does not begin until Revelation 6, the rapture of John in Revelation 4 appears to be a symbolic type that points to a pre-Tribulation Rapture of the Church.

Some counter this argument by pointing out that although the Church is not mentioned in Revelation during that book's description of the Tribulation, there is constant mention of "saints" (for example, Revelation 13:7). But that term is not used in the Bible exclusively to refer to members of the Church. Daniel uses it to refer to Old Testament believers who lived long before the Church was established (Daniel 7:18). The saints referred to in the book of Revelation are most likely those people who will be saved during the Tribulation, after the Church has been taken out of the world.

An interesting argument in behalf of the pre-Tribulation timing of the Rapture can be found in 2 Thessalonians. The church at Thessalonica was in a turmoil because someone had written them a letter under Paul's name stating that they had missed the "gathering to the Lord" and were, in fact, living in "the day of the Lord" (2 Thessalonians 2:1-2).

Paul attempted to calm them down by reminding them of his teaching that the day of the Lord would not come until after the Antichrist is revealed. He then stated that the Antichrist would not be revealed until a restraining force "is taken out of the way" (2 Thessalonians 2:3-7).

There has been much speculation as to the identity of this restraining force that Paul refers to. Some have identified it as the Holy Spirit. But it cannot be the Holy Spirit because there will be people saved during the Tribulation, and no one can be saved apart from the testimony of the Spirit (John 16:8-11 & 1 John 5:7).

Others have identified the restrainer as human government. It is true that government was ordained by God to restrain evil (Romans 13:1-4). But the governments of the world are in rebellion against God and His Son (Psalm 2), and they are therefore a contributor to the evil that characterizes the world. Furthermore, the Tribulation will not be characterized by a lack of government. Rather, it will feature the first true worldwide government (Revelation 13:7).

In my opinion that leaves only one other candidate for Paul's restrainer — and that is the Church. It is the Church that serves as the primary restrainer of evil in the world today as it proclaims the Gospel and stands for righteousness. When the Church fails in this mission, evil multiplies, as Paul graphically points out in 2 Timothy 3:1-5. Paul says that society in the end times will be characterized by chaos and despair because "men will hold to a form of religion but will deny its power." When the Church is removed from the world, all hell will literally break loose.

The pre-Tribulation concept of the Rapture has often been condemned as "escapism." I think this criticism is unjustified. The Bible itself says that Christians are to "comfort one another" with the thought of the Rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:18). Is it a comfort to think of the Rapture occurring at the end of the world's worst period of war instead of at the beginning?

Regardless of when the Rapture actually occurs, we need to keep in mind that the Bible teaches that societal conditions are going to grow increasingly worse the closer we get to the Lord's return. That means Christians will suffer tribulation whether or not they go into the Great Tribulation. And that means all of us had better be preparing ourselves for unprecedented suffering and spiritual warfare.

If you are a Christian, you can do that on a daily basis by putting on "the full armor of God" (Ephesians 6:13), praying at all times in the Spirit that you will be able to stand firm against the attacks of Satan (Ephesians 6:14-18).

If you are not a Christian, your only hope is to reach out in faith and receive the free gift of God's salvation which He has provided through His Son, Jesus (John 3:16).

From another thread, I found these stats to be worthwhile.

Footsteps of the Messiah, Chap 4, p96
Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum

The earthquake factor is even more interesting. According to the Encyclopedia Americana, between the years 63-1896 A.D. there were only twenty-six recorded earthquakes. Most of the world’s earthquakes began to occur since 1900 (per USGS Natl Earthquake Information Center. Earthquakes with 1,000 or more deaths from 1900.) (http:neic.usgs.gov/neis/eqlists/eqsmajr.html. 12May2000)

More recent web lists form USGS record some 80 quakes from 856AD to 1896, and some 432 major quakes for the 20th century, while in the first decade alone over 432 major quakes over 6.0 have been recorded (this tally is not consistent though, as some of those in the 20th century 432 tally are less than 3.0 located in remote areas or are aftershocks, while frequently over 100 quakes are recorded daily in the same range in the early 21st century. see http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/world/historical.php)

One article from the “Dispatch from Jerusalem”, 3rdQtr, 1992, p.11 referenced in Footsteps of the Messiah provides a greater number in middle centuries as recorded:

“In the first 1000 years after Jesus, there were approxiamately 5 recorded major earthquakes (although we are sure more occurred in remote locations). However, the trend has been on the increase:
14th century, there were 157 major earthquakes.
15th century, there were 174 major earthquakes.
16th century, there were 253 major earthquakes.
17th century, there were 278 major earthquakes.
18th century, there were 640 major earthquakes.
19th century, there were 2119 major earthquakes.
Nearly 900,000 earthquakes have been recorded thus so far in the 20th century. An earthquake every hour!”

The trend does appear to be undeniably increasing with respect to the impact of earthquakes upon humanity.

This has nothing to do with doubting the Rapture, or doubting the coming of the Lord, but rather -- "getting the facts straight" about what Jesus was saying and when it's supposed to be happening. It's obviously not happening right now -- that is -- we're not in an increasing mode of more and more earthquakes of bigger and bigger size...

In addition to earthquakes I believe another "stage setting" event we will see prior to the Rapture is the Temple being built. I'm convinced the Temple will not be a small quickly built building, but will be along the lines of the Temple described in Ezekiel chptrs 40-42.

Rev. 11:1 Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood saying, Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar and those who worship there.

John would not be told to measure a small structure that could easily be described, measuring indicates size.

Also, if the Temple is a large ornate building the muslim building at that site (the golden dome shrine) has to be removed. Something big has to happen to make this possible, earthquakes or a war. These "stage setters" have to precede the Rapture if it's pre, or mid, trib.

You were saying ...

There is an APPARENT increase in earthquakes by simple fact that there is a better global seismic netword AND increased news about quakes we wouldn’t normally hear about IMHO.

This idea of an "apparent" increase in earthquakes is what the USGS confirms, in that there are more people, more instruments in more remote areas to measure things and better communications.

So, if there are these factors at work ... (1) more people to notice what has been going on, (2) more instruments to measure what has not been measured before, and (3) better communications to let the rest of the world know and also to communicate these remote earthquakes back to scientists -- then maybe nothing "more" is really happening after all (in terms of earthquakes, right now).

I'm reminded of the saying, "If a tree falls in the woods and no one is around, does it make a noise?" So, we can modify it and say, "If an earthquake happens and no one sees or hears it or measures it, is it really an earthquake?" :-)

But, having said that, the Bible also makes it clear that just before Jesus returns to set up His one-world government over all the people of the world and all the nations -- there is a major, major earthquake that knocks down all the cities of the world, thus destroying the works of the devil. We haven't seen anything like that in any time in history that I'm aware of, short of the world-wide catastrophe of the flood that covered the globe (and, of course, destroyed the cities, too).

This earthquake, though, happens inside the Tribulation and we're not going to see it prior to the Tribulation.

I’m sure that when quakes become prophetic, there will be NO problem seeing the increase.

Well..., right there -- there's the thing, as you said it. When something like this happens, it will not be able to be denied and the world (even the unbelievers) will recognize this as from God. Right now they don't. Right now this can easily be denied. And right now, even though I expect the Rapture at any moment and the coming of the Lord back to the earth, very soon (and after that) -- I can easily deny it.

I don't see any really compelling reason to link up whatever we see today in the way of earthquakes with anything that Scripture has to say with the soon-coming of the Lord to set up His Kingdom. [... and, of course, we're getting "no sign" for His soon coming at the time of the Rapture...]

During the Tribulation period (that seven years) I expect a lot of people on the planet earth, to be getting signs, signs and more signs -- so many, that they will know beyond any doubt, what is about to happen. They will be extremely troubled during that time of the Tribulation. And fortunately (for us... :-) ...) we're not in the Tribulation period (that seven last years prior to Jesus coming to set up the Kingdom).

From the USGS webpage....

Are Earthquakes Really on the Increase?

We continue to be asked by many people throughout the world if earthquakes are on the increase. Although it may seem that we are having more earthquakes, earthquakes of magnitude 7.0 or greater have remained fairly constant.

A partial explanation may lie in the fact that in the last twenty years, we have definitely had an increase in the number of earthquakes we have been able to locate each year. This is because of the tremendous increase in the number of seismograph stations in the world and the many improvements in global communications. In 1931, there were about 350 stations operating in the world; today, there are more than 8,000 stations and the data now comes in rapidly from these stations by electronic mail, internet and satellite. This increase in the number of stations and the more timely receipt of data has allowed us and other seismological centers to locate earthquakes more rapidly and to locate many small earthquakes which were undetected in earlier years. The NEIC now locates about 20,000 earthquakes each year or approximately 50 per day. Also, because of the improvements in communications and the increased interest in the environment and natural disasters, the public now learns about more earthquakes.

According to long-term records (since about 1900), we expect about 17 major earthquakes (7.0 - 7.9) and one great earthquake (8.0 or above) in any given year.

See the chart at this USGS webpage...

Earthquake Facts and Statistics

You were saying ...

In addition to earthquakes I believe another "stage setting" event we will see prior to the Rapture is the Temple being built. I'm convinced the Temple will not be a small quickly built building, but will be along the lines of the Temple described in Ezekiel chptrs 40-42.

Good point on that Temple, and I'm going to refer to another thread that had some discussion of the preparations for that Temple being built and the "furnishings" for the Temple.

This was the prayer thread, "Pray for the Peace of Jerusalem"...

See Post #11, which gives a "visual" on how the scenario in Revelation can be fulfilled, according to what we are told there.

Also, note Post #22, which gives a statement from the Temple Institute, who has made a lot of preparations for the coming Temple.

And lastly, see Post #30, for the implements for the Temple, that the Temple Institute has already constructed and are "ready-to-go"... :-)

And lastly, in connection with your statement above, the Temple described in Ezekiel can't be built, because of the size requirements and the topography of the land. It just wouldn't fit.

Bible Prophecy teachers pretty much say that this is the "Millennial Temple" that Jesus, the Messiah of Israel has built, when He has set up His Kingdom on this earth. So, this would be the "Fourth Temple" -- while the one described in Revelation (and the one that is being worked on right now by the Jews, in preparations) would be the "Third Temple" ...

John would not be told to measure a small structure that could easily be described, measuring indicates size.

Also, if the Temple is a large ornate building the muslim building at that site (the golden dome shrine) has to be removed. Something big has to happen to make this possible, earthquakes or a war. These "stage setters" have to precede the Rapture if it's pre, or mid, trib.

No, it wouldn't be a simple tent as what was carried around with Israel in the wildnerness wanderings. The Third Temple will be a regular structure, I believe. As far as how long it would take to build it, I've heard that it could take about 18 months, if they have all the preparations ready-to-go, and that's exactly what we see happening now (i.e., all the "preparations" are being made).

Also note in Revelation that not all the normal Temple area is measured. There is part that is "left out" because it's under control of the Gentiles, and I believe that's a reference to the Temple Mount area, being split between the Muslims and the Jews and each one occupying a portion of it.

There are three possible locations for the Third Temple being built, and only one of the three is in the location where the current "Dome of the Rock" is. So, if the Third Temple is built at either of the two other locations, the Dome of the Rock can stay there and not impede the building of the Third Temple.

You were saying ...

IMO it’s difficult to just dismiss all these as not being a wake-up call / alert to Believers ??

Well... please do notice that today I've been talking about earthquakes and not other events (like Israel, the Temple, Iran, the Muslims, etc.). These other events can be considered "stage setting" for the Messiah of Israel establishing His Kingdom on earth, and those immediate events that precede that (the Tribulation time), but earthquakes are not stage-setting events...

It should be well-enough established that we are in the current time period for the Rapture to occur, which is a "signless event" -- and thus, it won't be "announced" ahead of time by any sort or series of events. That's why there's that Doctrine of Imminence, referred to above. The Rapture can happen at any time and there are no signs which precede it.

However, there are plenty of signs which precede the coming of the Lord to set up His Kingdom on this earth, and those signs overflow in the Tribulation period. But, we're not in the Tribulation period right now.

And, as I've said before (and other Bible prophecy teachers have said before) even if we don't have the many signs that will be there during the Tribulation, we do see the things "lining up" which can be part of those signs which will happen during the Tribulation. The "stage setting" itself, isn't a specific sign (as such), but it's an indication of the nearness of all these events.

But, it's meant to be an indication to believers, and not to the general world. Trying to convince the "general world" of these "stage setting events" (which are not signs in and of themselves) -- is a fairly futile exercise, actually.... :-)

Only the perceptive will understand that. Trying to get an unbeliever to be "perceptive" about these coming prophetic events is trying to do what only the Holy Spirit does, upon one being "born again".... I wouldn't bother with that part of it. I would only preach the Gospel of Salvation to them, as we are supposed to do.

When these unbelievers see the signs that will happen in the Tribulation time, they will then not be able to dispute about them, as they can easily do now. They can do so now, because those signs which will be there during the Tribulation period -- are not here now. Thus, you're beating that proverbial dead horse, with the unbeliever.

And actually, it's almost like beating a dead horse with some believers, too -- as I've seen on the open threads, dealing with the Rapture. There are more Christians who have been taught things "against what the Bible says" in their churches, than have been taught exactly what the Bible says. So, there are a whole lot of ignorant Christians out there... :-)

Following up on this once again, you were saying ...

Also, if the Temple is a large ornate building the muslim building at that site (the golden dome shrine) has to be removed. Something big has to happen to make this possible, earthquakes or a war. These "stage setters" have to precede the Rapture if it's pre, or mid, trib.

I mentioned earlier that there were three possible sites proposed for the rebuilding of the Temple. Here's a picture showing where they are, labeled A, B, and C ...

This is from the following website...

The Temple Mount in Jerusalem
Where were the First and Second Jewish Temples Located?

Site A lines up with the Golden Gate, which has been sealed up by the Muslims, because they were told that the Messiah comes through that gate to claim His kingdom (whether the Messiah actually does that or not, I don't know).

You can see some pictures of the area, shown on this other thread...

Pray for the Peace of Jerusalem

A 1925 picture of the Golden Gate is at Post #13.

A 1937 picture of the Temple Mount shows the Golden Gate clearly and as being in front of the opening to a possible rebuilt Third Temple at Site A, where the Dome of the Spirits is at..., seen at Post #14

For anyone that is interested, Dr. Steve Austin is going to speaking (keynote speaker) at the Chafer Theological Seminary annual conference in Houston, TX; March 8-10 at West Houston Bible Church. The conference is open to everyone.

http://deanbible.org/Media/Documents/CTS_Schedule_2-25-10.pdf

Dr. Steven A. Austin is a Professor
of Geology and chairman of the
Geology Department at the Institute
for Creation Research Graduate
School where he specializes in field
geology research as well as teaching
and directing research. He has three
degrees in Geology–University of
Washington, San Jose State, and
Pennsylvania State University (Ph.D.). He has made notable
discoveries at Grand Canyon and Mount St. Helens
and has performed geologic research on six of the
seven continents of the world. Dr. Austin has written
four books and numerous technical papers for the
Christian and secular press on creationist geology, and
has also produced four videos dealing with geology
plus developed a computer software program.
Currently Dr. Austin is researching mass kill of nautiloids
within the Redwall limestone of Grand Canyon,
radioisotopes of Grand Canyon rocks, and earthquake
destruction of archaeological sites in Jordan. He resides
in California.

You were saying ...

What do you think of this simplified illustration?

Doncha love charts? ... :-) ... I do... They are useful to illustrate what a lot of words are saying. Sometimes those words are confusing, in grasping the overall picture, but a nice chart can do wonders to bring it all together.

Yes, that chart looks good from what would be considered the Dispensational viewpoint. And don't let anyone fool you as some others use "Dispensationalism" as a curse word ... LOL ...

See the following --

The teaching of Dispensationalim / Pastor Mark Hitchcock and Dr. Charles Ryrie

... at Post #329

And more specifically, I see in your chart, the Rapture of those who are "in Christ" (dead or alive) at the beginning of the Tribulation, the unsaved dead being held in Hades, awaiting the final judgment (the Great White Throne Judgement of Revelation 20), after the Rapture, I see the Judgement Seat of Christ (you'll hear some pastors referring to it as the Bema seat), and then there's the Marriage Supper of the Lamb (some put it in Heaven and others at the beginning of the Millennial Kingdom), it shows the Millennial Kingdom, at the end of which is the Great White Throne Judgment. The interesting thing here is that there are two judgments shown in the chart, one being between the Tribulation and the Millennial Kingdom, which would be the Sheep and Goat Judgment (of the nations). It's probably of no big consequence but it shows that to be "bigger" than the Great White Throne judgment at the end of the Millennial Kingdom reign (just saying... no big deal, actually).

Then everyone who is at the Great White Throne Judgement does go directly into the lake of fire, as is indicated -- anyone whose name is not written in the Lamb's book of life, that being the "second death". And then we see the new Heavens and the new Earth, as all things are made new, as we are told at the end of Revelation.

It's a very good chart.

THANKS THANKS

Footsteps of the Messiah, Chap 4, p96
Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum

One article from the “Dispatch from Jerusalem”, 3rdQtr, 1992, p.11 referenced in Footsteps of the Messiah provides a greater number in middle centuries as recorded:

The trend does appear to be undeniably increasing with respect to the impact of earthquakes upon humanity.

Thanks for the info you posted...

Here is some more information on this scientist, who is a Christian, who disputes the idea that earthquakes are increasing.

Steve Austin

Dr. Steven A. Austin is a field research geologist with a Ph.D. from Penn State University in sedimentary geology. He is “Senior Research Scientist” with Institute for Creation Research in Dallas, Texas. He has performed geologic research on six of the seven continents of the world. His research adventures have taken him by helicopter into the crater of Mount St. Helens volcano, by bush plane onto glaciers in the high mountains of Alaska, by raft through the entire Grand Canyon, on horseback into the high Sierra, by elevator into the world’s deepest coal mines, by SCUBA onto the Great Barrier Reef of Australia, by rail into the backcountry of Korea, by foot onto barren plateaus of southern Argentina, and by four-wheel drive into remote desert areas of Israel, Jordan and Saudi Arabia. He is the author of three books, three videos, one computer software package, and more than thirty technical geology papers.

Dr. Austin’s field research within Grand Canyon includes over 400 nights camped out below the Canyon’s rim. He has launched 22 raft trips within Grand Canyon. He has explored very remote areas of Grand Canyon by mule, helicopter and ATV. His book “Grand Canyon: Monument to Catastrophe” and his DVD “Grand Canyon: Monument to the Flood” summarize his investigations. He has over ten technical papers on Grand Canyon. Subjects of his technical publications on Grand Canyon include lava dams, breached dams, fossils, limestones, sandstones, basalts, diabase sills and radioisotope dating. He is widely known for his discovery of the regionally extensive mass-kill and burial bed within the Redwall Limestone about 2000 feet below the Canyon’s rim.

See the original article for more links and further information... [click on the link above the picture].

Irrespective of the reasons, e.g. poor building codes, etc the net result is that approximately 10% of the entire national population on Haiti has been badly impacted.

On a percentatage of population basis, the 225,000 dead in Haiti (and still counting) would equate to approximately 8 million dead in the USA in a single event

On a percentage of population basis the number of those now homeless (1.25 million) would equate to 30 million becoming homeless overnight here in the USA.

I am also well aware of “Chile” having lived there in May 1960 when the strongest quake in recorded history struck = 9.5

Likewise the impact in death and damage is a factor not just of the quake strength - rather in Haiti the depth of the quake was very shallow and directly under their national capital of 3 million people.

The latest quake in Chile was offshore at a distance several miles to the nearest city and was about 3 time as “deep” as the the quake that struck in Haiti.

Also the underlying bedrock in Chile - as back-stopped by the Andes Mountains -- that come down very close to the Pacific Ocean reduces the degree of vibration (and hence damage)

Thus is sum, I was merely reflecting that the UN and other international bodies have officially rated the Haiti quake as the "greatest natural disaster" based on the “total percentage of population killed and made homeless” - NOT the the quake magnitude - that would be Chile May 1960 (9.5) when 1,000 people lost their lives,

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