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To: topcat54
I’m not sure that a “whole Bible” follower of Messiah” is. Do you know any Christian who would deny being a “whole Bible” follower of Messiah”? Or is that code for something specific?

We don't cut the Bible into parts:

--As the Supercessionist does: Before: Israel; Now: the REAL Israel the "Church"

--As the Dispensationalist does: Before: Israel; Now: the "Church"; in the Future: Israel

We don't think Abraham, Moses, and David were Christians (or proto-Christians).

We know the "saving" faith of those listed in Hebrews 11 is identical to the "saving" faith that those who follow the Messiah of Israel have today.

We know that Messiah did not abolish any part of Scripture, and we don't think "fullfilled" (Matthew 5:17-18) means "done away with" or "rendered moot."

Most of all, we know that disciple is to imitate his Teacher - and when perfectly trained will be like Him. Which means, if He is a humble, merciful, and observant Jew - (even if we are Gentile) we should strive to be and live like Him... all at the expense of humanly contrived creeds, statements of "I believe" etc.
234 posted on 03/02/2009 3:49:08 PM PST by safisoft
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To: safisoft
You wrote:

Humility and grace are the characteristics of truth. And for the record, I am neither Supercesionist or Dispensationalist. I am a “whole Bible” follower of Messiah.”

And now you speak with humility and grace when you claim:

We don't cut the Bible into parts:

Of course you do. When was the last time you killed an animal and spread the blood on the doorposts or your house according to the Law of Moses? When was the last time you stoned an adulterer to death according to the Law of Moses? When was the last time you went to a Levite to have your skin disease investigated? When was the last time you observed any of the Levitical holy days according to the Law of Moses?

In light of this, it's a bit disingenuous to say you don't cut the Bible into parts, don't you think?

We don't think Abraham, Moses, and David were Christians (or proto-Christians).

Abraham was a Christian. Jesus said so Himself when He told the unbelieving Jews, "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad." (John 8:56).

We know the "saving" faith of those listed in Hebrews 11 is identical to the "saving" faith that those who follow the Messiah of Israel have today.

As do most Christians.

We know that Messiah did not abolish any part of Scripture, and we don't think "fullfilled" (Matthew 5:17-18) means "done away with" or "rendered moot."

Of course you do. Thre is much in the Law that you do not observe according to Moses. See above.

Which means, if He is a humble, merciful, and observant Jew -

But you are confused. Jesus never asked anyone to be an “observant Jew” like Him. In fact it is impossible to be an “observant Jew” like Jesus. There is no temple. There are no Levites. There is no sacrifice. None of the conditions that made keeping the Law possible in the days of Jesus exist today. The temple is gone, destroyed forever by God's will. The new covenant is the operative basis for coming to God today. Jews and Greeks on equal standing.

Best you can do today is to be an “observant Jew” according to the rules of the rabbis who know not Jesus. Jesus never told anyone to be like that.

Everyone is a “supersessionist” or “dispensationalist” to a certain degree.

236 posted on 03/02/2009 4:58:32 PM PST by topcat54
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