DU:
In case you just don't understand, Geneticists disagree with you.
CH:
No, you just proved that you don't understand genetics. That study showed that Jewish priests, regardless of denomination (Orthodox, Sephardic, Reform etc.) tend to share the same y-chromosome. In case you don't understand, that supports my point. Other studies, such as Hammer's, showed that all Jews, regardless of where they are from (except for Ethiopians) share genetic markers and have similar y-chromosome distribution frequencies. In short, an Iraqi Jew has more in common genetically with a Polish Jew than either has with Polish or Iraqi gentiles.
So, Quoting from, linking to and showing the work of an actual population geneticist shows I don't understand the science in following a population with Genetics?
You really need to read the stuff I posted before responding to it, you are trying to compare two genetically conservative groups with a genetically promiscuous group, and it just does not work.
DU:
A rather strong claim to make just on your reputation and no supporting evidence.
CH:
Sure, how about every single study real scientists (not LDS lackeys) have done?
Every single study by non Mormons... Link one by a population geneticist.
Oh, and BTW, When Keith Crandall did his study he was not a Mormon, he joined later, so there goes the every single one argument. (Just a hint, never speak in absolutes...)
CH:
They show East Asian, partially Siberian origins for Native Americans.
Interesting, you said Asian only before I brought up the Siberian genes, so now that was your argument? LOL!
CH:
There is no haplogroup or junk DNA similarity with Middle Eastern groups.
Then your people have not tested descendants of Mayans as Keith did. Sloppy research by non primary researchers who are not specialists in the field makes you guys look bad.
DU:
That's really funny, since one of my ancestors was left behind by the group as they traveled north (her diary was preserved because she married royalty, my mom bought a copy translated from the original Hebrew), but hey you say they don't exist, and with your track record on this post so far, who could doubt you?
CH:
I'd like to see that "diary." If it existed, it would be 2700 years old. Not likely.
So how were the manuscripts of the bible preserved? By copying them over and over, same here, but it was still legible, I'll ask my mom for the tittle of the book, you can order a copy on amazon, I believe. It has her genealogy back to Abraham, songs in Hebrew, and the story of how she got left behind, fascinating stuff.
DU:
Do you have a link for this tidbit of information? I'm not doubting you, just wondered if you had any backup what so ever, if not maybe I could help you find some.
CH:
We have Assyrian cuneiform records. 27,290 people were exiled. That's it. Google it. You could probably find a picture or two of the actual cuneiform.
Google it? That's your link? ROTFLOL! Your assertion, you prove it. I have better things to do with my time than do your research for you. (I'm busy researching links for my responses)
You say the ten tribes are already here, assimilated, the Bible disagrees with you:
Jeremiah 16:14-15 14 ¶ Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that it shall no more be said, The Lord liveth, that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;
15 But, The Lord liveth, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers.
Or:
Jeremiah 31:7-10 7 For thus saith the Lord; Sing with gladness for Jacob, and shout among the chief of the nations: publish ye, praise ye, and say, O Lord, save thy people, the remnant of Israel.
8 Behold, I will bring them from the north country, and gather them from the bcoasts of the earth, and with them the blind and the lame, the woman with child and her that travaileth with child together: a great company shall return thither.
9 They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.
10 ¶ Hear the word of the Lord, O ye nations, and declare it in the isles far off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock.
And that's just a couple from Jeremiah...
CH:
You have some "source" saying 6 million (based on some backhanded calculations, based on the Bible). Mazel tov. Those sources are wrong. Assyrian cuneiform says 27,290 people went into the Assyrian exile (the subsequent Babylonian Captivity was much larger). The Assyrians kept excellent records. Those records are supported by the Bible itself -- it notes that part of Israel found sanctuary in Judah and celebrated Passover under Hezekiah, and more found santuary during the reign of Josiah. That wouldn't have been possible if every man, woman and child was deported. But it fits in perfectly with what Assyrian records tell us: the upper classes and royalty were exiled, the common people were left on the land.
No link to this document you want to quote? LOL!
Are you claiming that there are no othere documents detailing Israelites being exiled by the Assyrians? Prove it! ROTFLOL!
DU:
The Samaritans were the descendants of the tribes of Israel who intermarried with those who were not Abraham's descendant's which is why the Jews looked on them as half breeds and not "real" Jews. Out of curiosity, where do you get this stuff?
CH:
No, that's just what the Bible says.
So is the Bible an authoritative source for you or not? If not, why not. If not, what is?
CH:
That part of the Bible is a political polemic, reflecting the hatred between Jews and Samaritans (it also says that the Samaritans are idol worshippers, which is false). The Samaritans themselves say that they descend from the common people who weren't exiled by the Assyrians. Genetics has showed that the Samaritans are right -- they are indistinguishable from Jews, at least on the male side. Google it. And yes, there are only 600 Samaritans left. Most live in Holon, a few are still in Nablus.
Of course the Jewish male line is preserved, that's what the Bible said, the men of the covenant married the women of the land. As for the 600 left, source?
DU:
I would really love to see some sources on this, My brother in law who runs tours over in the middle east for the church should get some of this information, he says they all claim to descend from Ishmael, but then, he's probably an idiot too, huh?
CH:
You are saying that the Bukharan, northern Persian, and Kurdish JEWS think they descend from Ishmael?? You are wrong, very wrong. And I don't care what your brother in law says. I have known many Jews from Bukhara, northern Iran and Kurdistan. Most have longstanding traditions of being from the so-called lost tribes. Hell, just ask them. The Bukharan Jews in particular are quite proud of it.
We were talking about the Palestinians and that is who I am referencing here with Ishmael. Not "Jews" as for the guys claiming to be Jews being from the lost tribes... If they were from another tribe, they wouldn't be Jews...
My genealogy says I belong to the tribe of Ephraim. That does not make me a Jew.
Getting back to the topic, (why did we go there?) in order to prove a relationship, the American Indians would have had to be a genetically conservative group, they were not, so this will never prove a negative this way.