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To: Godzilla; ChicagoHebrew
True, very true. It is not just one line of dna/genetic study that disproves the Lamamite-American Indian myth, but multiple studies such as:

LOL!

and I quote "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

you guys claim it is.

Let's just say that this fallacy ridden logic is valid for a moment and play with some things I don't know.
I have no evidence that Godzilla is not gay...

I have no evidence that ChicagoHebrew is not gay...

I have no evidence that Godzilla and ChicagoHebrew are not rooming together...

Luckily, I don't buy the I have no evidence to disprove, so it's true line, and neither should anyone with two braincells to rub together.

Yet the prophetic voice of the mormon presidency remains silent - allowing the unauthorized ramblings of the apologists to scramble everywhere to deflect the mormon sheeple from the truth.

What truth?

DNA studies to prove the book of Mormon is true? Give it a rest, there is no Way to prove the Book of Mormon false with DNA, the Book of Mormon says they started with a genetically impure sample by including slaves in the party that set off and letting them marry in, not only that, but it speaks of meeting people who were already in the Americas and marrying in with them. The story line just does not support DNA verification in the negative.

If you guys understood DNA, and had actually read the Book of Mormon, you'd know that, but you don't or at least claim not to.

As for proving the book of Mormon true, you ignore the Middle eastern markers including Jewish ones common in pure descendants of Mayans to claim "nothing shows..."

Whatever, at least you guys are amusing.
138 posted on 02/16/2009 7:38:12 PM PST by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: DelphiUser

this is neat

If you Could Hie To Kolob (Spanish Version)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFfIaYUxiMk

There were times I did not make my sacrament so I would take it in the Spanish Ward their spirit was so sweet fill with the Lord I did not understand a word but it was delightful!


142 posted on 02/16/2009 8:03:51 PM PST by restornu (Give me the right to issue and control a nationÂ’s money and I care not who governs the country B.D.)
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To: DelphiUser
True, very true. It is not just one line of dna/genetic study that disproves the Lamamite-American Indian myth, but multiple studies such as:
LOL!
and I quote "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." you guys claim it is.

There is no absence of evidence DU, there is an abundance of evidence following those multiple (as well as other) lines of investigation. That evidence clearly shows that Nephi/Lamamite story is a myth. Only those most ignorant ignore the application of Occam's razor at this point, so why are you avoiding it DU?

DNA studies to prove the book of Mormon is true? Give it a rest, there is no Way to prove the Book of Mormon false with DNA, the Book of Mormon says they started with a genetically impure sample by including slaves in the party that set off and letting them marry in, not only that, but it speaks of meeting people who were already in the Americas and marrying in with them. The story line just does not support DNA verification in the negative.

DU, you are the one who posted the whole DNA nonsense on this formerly caucus thread and the thread was started by a mormon, so at least get your short history correct. Those slaves came from the same region of the world, they would have the same genetic markers. But to even admit that Nephi was around to even begin such a journey is laughable. IF he even existed, he would have been carried away to Babylon. Nephi records himself as the youngest of four brothers and although "exceedingly young", he declares himself to be a man (1st Nephi 4:31). Nephi’s stature and strength lead this writer to the conclusion that he could have been between fifteen and twenty-five years of age. He was allegedly a strong young Jewish man in his prime. Nephi would have been considered strong and apt (able) for war. No doubt he would have been called upon to defend the city should there have been a need. Biblical history records that the Babylonian king, Nebuchadnezzar, had appointed Zedekiah to be king of Judah after deporting 10,000 Jerusalem residents to Babylon and leaving only the poorest sort of people of the land in Jerusalem. As a strong young man in his prime, Nephi would have been deported to Babylon with all the rest of the 10,000 captives just prior to Zedekiah's appointment (the beginning point of the Book of Mormon) if he had truly existed in Jerusalem as advertised.

The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence is a flat-earth argument when it is not supported by other avenues of evaluating the truth.

If you guys understood DNA, and had actually read the Book of Mormon, you'd know that, but you don't or at least claim not to.

I'm an avid reader, and have read a lot of the DNA related articles written by people who really know what they are talking about. I can understand most of it because I am a professional scientist and the formats are consistent. They may or may not have read the bom, but the nearly universal (except for the BYU profs wanting to retain their tenure) interpretation of the data is that the Americas were not populated by peoples from the area of Israel in 600 BC.

As for proving the book of Mormon true, you ignore the Middle eastern markers including Jewish ones common in pure descendants of Mayans to claim "nothing shows..."

You of all people should know that I have not ignored that challenge, and have repeatedly cited to you the studies that clarified the issue. Many of what were previously thought to be X lineages among the Jews and Middle Eastern populations belong to a different lineage, haplogroup N1b.19 The N1b mtDNA lineage is not found among American Indians. If you are referring to Crandall's misrepresentation of a 2005 paper by Noah Rosenberg and colleagues. Crandall, who goes to considerable lengths in a FAIR DVD to point out how tricky this type of population genetic data is, concludes that since a small portion of Maya chromosomes is colored blue (the dominant color of Middle Eastern chromosomes), this is evidence of Middle Eastern DNA in the Maya. Is it a reasonable conclusion? This is answered in great detail here.

But then that would make you a Limited Geographists now wouldn't it DU? The link goes further to point out follow-up studies by Wang in 2007 that brought greater detail and expanded studies - including Siberians. Now all those alleged middle eastern DNA have been associated more closely with Siberian populations, thus this magical middle eastern DNA link vanishes into mormon mythology. So quit insulting the intelligence's of the readers here with such pitiful arguments.

One last note on this. A parallel study that included one of Crandall's proof cases - the Pima - were genetically evaluated in another way. The mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) sequence variation of the South American Ticuna, the Central American Maya, and the North American Pimawas analyzed by restriction-endonuclease digestion and oligonucleotide hybridization. The analysis revealed that Amerindian populations have high frequencies of mtDNAs containing the rare Asian RFLP HincII morph 6, a rare HaeIII site gain, and a unique AluI site gain. In addition, the Asian-specific deletion between the cytochrome c oxidase subunit II (COII) and tRNA(Lys) genes was also prevalent in both the Pima and the Maya.

A separate study, separate line of evaluation, same conclusion, Asian origin for the Native Americans and not Hebrews. You see, studies may operate alone, when all the lines of evidence are put together from DNA studies of not only humans, but intestinal bacteria and dogs, just to mention a couple, Hebrew origin for any people group in the Americas is none existent. Again, the silence in DNA publications arguing for the mormon interpretation of DNA studies is lacking, where are Crandall's articles? He has a lot of crawfish articles, but none on Nephite DNA sequences in the new world.

As always it is a pleasure to observe your ivory towers of mormon proofs crumble into dust.

145 posted on 02/16/2009 8:26:29 PM PST by Godzilla (Gal 4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?)
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To: DelphiUser; Godzilla

DNA studies to prove the book of Mormon is true? Give it a rest, there is no Way to prove the Book of Mormon false with DNA


No need. All you have to do is read it to know it is false.


414 posted on 02/23/2009 10:22:41 PM PST by reaganaut (ex-mormon, now Christian. "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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