Posted on 01/30/2009 10:12:00 AM PST by NYer
Another member of the SSPX has decided to share his thoughts about the Holocaust with the world:
In the wake of a global furor triggered by Pope Benedict XVI’s decision to lift the excommunication of four traditionalist Catholic bishops, including one who cast doubt on the Holocaust, another leader in the traditionalist Society of St. Pius X has questioned whether the Nazis used gas chambers for anything other than “disinfection,” and said that people who hold revisionist views on the Holocaust are not anti-Semites.You can read more, and the full translation of his interview, at the NCR link.
Fr. Floriano Abrahamowicz, a pastor and spokesperson for the Society of St. Pius X in northeastern Italy, also referred to Jews as “a people of deicide,” referring to the death of Christ, and suggested that the Jewish Holocaust has been “exalted” over what he called “other genocides,” such as the Allied bombing of German cities and the Israeli occupation of the Gaza strip.
On the other hand, Abrahamowicz insisted that the traditionalist movement founded by the late French Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre is not “anti-Semitic.” Among other things, Abrahamowicz said, he himself has Jewish roots on his father’s side.
The comments came in a Jan. 29 interview with the Italian newspaper La Tribuna di Treviso.
VERY, VERY deeply embedded.
If the Pope doesn’t see fit to classify these whackjobs as “schismatic”, he might as well be buying their books. He’s sure helping them sell their books, as well as helping them recruit followers.
I have a large contingent of my family that are SSPX, religious member and all. These sentiments are wide spread throughtout their community. I found the same thing with SSPX kids I attend college with. When you leave the truth....you go nuts.
What he said there about not having studied whether gas chambers had been used for killing people, was likely an effort to go as far as possible with denial without running afoul of laws prohibiting it.
This is a huge mistake to allow this blasphemy to continue in the Church. This is not just a minor difference of opinion. It is a foundational principle of Christianity that Jesus SACRIFICED His life for us. To deny this is to deny His Deity.
Jesus was born a Jew, lived as an observant Jew, and died a Jew. He came for the Jew first, and THEN the Gentile. The Jews, with all their faults, warts and boils, are God's people. God chose them to reveal Himself to man. You persecute Jews at your own peril. God can deal with Israel they way He chooses without our help. Our treatment of Jews is on OUR heads.
The Bible clearly states we were "adopted in" to God's family. That means we ARE Jewish now as Christians. The Bible says we are "perfected" Jews. When a Jew becomes a believer, they are perfected. We were grafted into this family, not the other way around.
This "Jews killed Jesus" philosophy MUST be cut from the Church. It is cancer, error, and blasphemy. If you hate the Jews, you hate your family, and what's worse, you hate God's family. You hate yourself.
If the pope doesn't nip this in the bud RIGHT NOW, you will see a schism form very quickly. It isn't a small matter. This is a HUGE mistake.
Amen!
Given your difference of opinion with the Pope (and the owner of this website) on certain other issues, like the genocide of 50 million innocent kids in America over the last 40 years, I'm sure Benedict XVI will take your opinions under advisement.
If saying that the murder of 6 million Jews never happened makes someone a "whackjob" (I happen to agree), what does saying that the murder of 50 million kids of every race doesn't really matter make someone?
Ah, homeboy.
For the Catholic Church, is it too much trouble to excommunicate this SINGLE individual?
Not that they should be forced to, by the way, because when they do things on their own without undue influence, we can all judge them better.
The term "schismatic" simply refers to one who rejects the authority of the Pope. It has nothing to do with matters of faith nor dogma.
Not that this has anything to do with matters of faith. The Holocaust is not a part of the Catholic Credo. Disputing the reality of historical events which are widely accepted as fact is not a disqualifier for membership of the Catholic Church. Neither is being deranged.
Woah! I disagree completely. By believing in a god that could be captured and murdered against his will, they rob the deity of Jesus. It's no longer about the Jews actions, but about the willing sacrifice of Jesus. They MUST believe Jesus sacrificed Himself willingly for our sins or they deny a central tenet for salvation. Any other conclusions blasphemes the death of our Lord.
They need to be Imams for Hamas if they can't believe what the Church teaches.
In the last few days I have had close to the same conversation about others in the Catholic church such as Kennedy, Kerry and Pelosi. If you don't believe the teachings of the church get out or get thrown out. You may as well have Osama Bin Laden sitting in the pews if you allow the other non believers participating in the church. Liberalism is fine on many subjects, but Christianity isn't one of them. The CENTRAL teachings of our religion are Bible based and are never changing and eternal. We may argue over what songs are sung in church, but not whether Jesus sacrificed Himself willingly. That isn't a negotiable item. This is a HUGE mistake for the pope.
Are you Catholic? If not, this issue regarding the internal governance of the Church is frankly none of your business.
I know that no sane person who has ever studied it (and there are many thousands) has concluded that there is even a remote possibility that the Nazis were not using gas chambers to purposefully exterminate Jewish prisoners, and that’s enough for me.
To play devil's advocate here, just how are we supposed to believe this "study" done by these thousands of people? Honestly, consider that, and don't make assumptions about anti-semitism or some such first. If, here in America, it were illegal to question an accepted number about how many Africans were brought over as slaves how could any real confidence exist about that very number? Science, or history, or any other "study" requires just that, study. Study doesn't happen without discussion, consideration, and debate. Remove debate and discussion, and you don't have any point to continue consideration.
It seems to me that politics has gummed up any discussion of the holocaust until it is a meaningless subject anymore. It is not a study. In Germany people go to jail for questioning the reasoning of others on the subject. And we in America have refused asylum to people who did that and sent them back in order to be imprisoned for doing nothing other than speaking their minds on a doubt and considering an alternative theory based on their interpretation of the facts. I don't care if they are anti-this or that. I can't know that. I can't know if the people here in America that say that less than 100 million Africans were taken from Africa are really motivated by hatred of black people. How could I? And does it make the people saying 100 million automatically right? Without being able to consider the facts publically and sharing the findings there is no study and nothing added to the collective knowledge of man.
Are these people anti-semites? I don't know, and I don't care. That is their sin to carry, and I won't worry myself about it. Do I trust their interpretation? Frankly, no. However, I do find it ironic that I am supposed to believe the number I am told, because if I don't then I am an anti-semite. That is study? That is science? I don't think so. That is political correctness of the most bigotted and ugly variety, and carried to its most absurd and ultimate end.
I have found that the more traditional a Catholic group is, the more looney they are.
Paranoia is rampant in some of them. We are a very traditional church (note the small t, we are still NO). Some are Ron Paul supporters, many are conspiracy theorists. They believe in every apparition that comes down the pike. Huge Medjugorje followers, some Garabandal and (believe it or not) the Deacon was teaching about Conyers, GA in a Bible study class!!! (I left and never returned). They can be pretty bizarre.
I agree that it wouldn’t be reasonable for the Catholic Church (or any Church) to deny membership to people because they are “deranged”. However, these aren’t random members of the Catholic Church; they claim to be bishops and priests, while engaging in these deranged, theology-related rants. If the Pope felt that these mentally ill people should be allowed to have formal membership in the Church, just as a profoundly retarded person would be welcomed as a member, that would be one thing. But un-excommunicating them without explicitly stripping them of their status as bishops and priests, amounts to a tacit endorsement of them as spiritual leaders. It lends the Pope’s authority to their claims to be qualified to guide the spiritual and sacramental lives of lay members of the Church, thus encouraging more people to follow them.
ping
I did. I used to be in the John Birch Society, and these people are John Birch Catholics.
Believe it or not, I actually once found a genuine Traditionalist Catholic site on the Internet that condemned anti-Semitism and the fact that Traditionalist Catholic sites are so loaded with it. I doubt if there's another site like it.
The many serious scholars who have investigated the events that took place in Nazi death camps have advanced plenty of very solid evidence, including but not limited to hundreds of living witnesses, to back their conclusions. The whackjobs who advance idiotic claims, such as the claim that the gas chambers were used for “disinfection”, consistently fail to present any plausible evidence or credible witnesses.
If the church is consistant, the "gazillions of others can figure out if they want to stay or not. When the church is all over the ball park, you get "gazillions" like Kennedy, Kerry, Biden, and Pelosi.
I can attest to this!
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