Posted on 01/28/2009 10:12:41 PM PST by Gamecock
The Catholic Church does NOT claim the same thing, nor does the Pope.
Well then my apologies to all. In any regard, the bible says that man can know the deep things of God, even His secret counsel.
“Well then my apologies to all. In any regard, the bible says that man can know the deep things of God, even His secret counsel.”
True, but where you must be very careful is when men start claiming that they have uncovered Biblical truths lost since the first century. We don’t have confirmation yet that Calvin said anything like that. Those that DO talk like that usually wind up founding a cult of some sort.
2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
2:9 But as it is written , Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
He revealeth the deep and secret things: he knoweth what is in the darkness, and the light dwelleth with him.
Yes, but Calvin is a major theologian even if some don’t agree with him. It’s not like he’s a mystic.
I do know that God commanded me to do certain things. I assume that He meant for me to work very hard at fulfilling those commandments.
I work hard at that but have sometimes failed during my tenure as one of God's children.
God told us that I can be forgiven for that. I trust that is true. But I will continue to work at what God commanded. To do otherwise would be very foolhardy I think.
***In the Calvinist universe, how can the “elect” who “stand fast through faith” ever be “cut off”?***
They can’t. The Reformed believe that the limo ride is binding and the Reformed Holy Spirit frogmarches the previously unaware elect to the limo where the comfort is complete and through the windows of the limo, whilst gorging on celestial caviar and champagne, they can watch the Reformed reprobate trudging without respite directly into hell.
***You will have to search the net for his writings, but on the Sonship of Jesus, among other tenets of the Christian faith, he denied Christ’s deity. King preached a social gospel, a Marxist interpretation of Christianity, denying the Resurrection as well. King was a double-minded man, and his behavior in private was at odds with his pose as a Baptist minister.***
The behaviour is well documented (and not at odds with various and sundry other Baptist ministers, some of whom are either currently or were formerly on the political stage). I was not aware of Marxian heresy. Thank you.
***“Even more subtle, technically, he didn’t condemn Jesus. He said that he could find no fault and washed his hands of the whole matter.”
Not quite right.
Luke 23:23-24, “And they were instant with loud voices, requiring that he might be crucified. And the voices of them and of the chief priests prevailed. And Pilate gave sentence that it should be as they required.”***
In other words, he passed allowed an innocent man to be part of a political ploy.
Luke 23:
20
Again Pilate addressed them, still wishing to release Jesus,
21
but they continued their shouting, “Crucify him! Crucify him!”
22
Pilate addressed them a third time, “What evil has this man done? I found him guilty of no capital crime. Therefore I shall have him flogged and then release him.”
23
With loud shouts, however, they persisted in calling for his crucifixion, and their voices prevailed.
24
The verdict of Pilate was that their demand should be granted.
25
So he released the man who had been imprisoned for rebellion and murder, for whom they asked, and he handed Jesus over to them to deal with as they wished.
He handed Jesus over to them to deal with as they wished. He washed his hands of the whole matter; he never condemned Jesus.
***I asked you to prove Scripturally that God dictated the Gospel of Matthew and the Epistles of Paul. You quoted only Paul and have not shown anything of Matthew. Therefore I will conclude that you admit that Matthew is not dictated by God.
Littl kiddie word games you are playing...If you don’t want to believe that God is the author of the Scriptures, have at it***
Let us see what Scipture itself says about its origins. Luke 1:
1
1 Since many have undertaken to compile a narrative of the events that have been fulfilled among us,
2
just as those who were eyewitnesses from the beginning and ministers of the word have handed them down to us,
3
I too have decided, after investigating everything accurately anew, to write it down in an orderly sequence for you, most excellent Theophilus
So Luke is not authored by God? How about Acts 1:
1
1 In the first book, Theophilus, I dealt with all that Jesus did and taught
2
until the day he was taken up, after giving instructions through the holy Spirit to the apostles whom he had chosen.
Do you then not admit Luke and Acts as Scripture because God specifically did not write them? What other NT books are or are not written by God in your scholarly estimation?
***But that just makes it another secular book on the Catholic book shelf.***
The Bible is the product of the Church; the Church is not the product of the Bible; the Church is the product of Christ. Hardly a secular book, unless your understanding of secular approaches your apparent understanding of Christ.
***And then you can consult with the pagans Plato and Plotunis and the others to help you understand what it says, thru pagan eyes***
Why would I? We come to bring Christianity to all the pagans, including many who call themselves Christians and demonstrably pagan. Interested?
He handed him over to the executioners to be crucified when he had the power to release him. Are you saying that is not condemning him?
***“He washed his hands of the whole matter; he never condemned Jesus”
He handed him over to the executioners to be crucified when he had the power to release him. Are you saying that is not condemning him?***
Read Luke and note the exact wording:
Pilate addressed them a third time, “What evil has this man done? I found him guilty of no capital crime. Therefore I shall have him flogged and then release him.”
trying to placate the always testing anti Roman Jewish authorities.
So he released the man who had been imprisoned for rebellion and murder, for whom they asked, and he handed Jesus over to them to deal with as they wished.
To deal with as they wished, as a purely internal Jewish matter. Pilate was acting politically, and trading an unimportant life for some political peace, so he hoped. Pilate never condemned Jesus and no Scripture says otherwise.
Well, since Jesus, who came back to life, said there isn't, I guess I 'll go with the Word of the Lord over yours every time.
***In your case, maybe. There is an infinite variety of spiritual paths to salvation.***
Says who?
***’Once saved, always saved’ is a ridiculous heresy. Anyone can distance themselves from the Lord anytime they choose.***
Your first statement is Scripturally wrong, your second one is right. Where are you within Christianity?
The scriptures posted as part of the proof were:
“Then of course there is John 19:10-11, where Jesus says to Pilot, “Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee? Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.”
Act 4:27-28 “For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.”
Specifically, Pilot was an active participant in the killing of Jesus according to the determinate plan of God.
Jhn 19:16 Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took Jesus, and led [him] away.
Mar 15:15 And [so] Pilate, willing to content the people, released Barabbas unto them, and delivered Jesus, when he had scourged [him], to be crucified.
Whether he condemned Jesus for a crime is beside the point; he knowingly condemned an innocent man to death by turning him over to his Roman troops to be crucified as demanded by the Jewish mob. All according to god's plan.
You wouldn't know that by your posts on this thread. You have hurled the exact same accusations the Romanists have assaulted all Protestants with for years on FR -- how do you know you are saved? How do you know you've done enough good works and been a good enough Christian and "accepted" enough faith to be awarded with heaven? How do you know your redemption is eternal? How do you know Christ died for you and will never forsake you? How do you know the Holy Spirit will never allow you to forsake Christ?
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it."
" For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord....
... Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
"But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, ... Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, ... they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
Dr. Eckleburg, my friend, open your eyes. Look at these verses.
King fell into error early on, seeing Christianity as the outcome of Greek philosophical thought. Talking to other so called Christian sects, we can see that they embrace the same error, and anytime you see any of their adherents denouncing the apostle Paul, you will inevitably find that they indeed preach "another Jesus."
From his homepage, Dave is a believer in Swedenborg, a scientist who improved upon Christian theology. From what I can understand of it, there is no plan of salvation, thus Jesus did not die for us. Instead, we are assured, by Swedenborg, not the bible, or Jesus’ own words, that all good people, like dogs, go to heaven.
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