Posted on 01/28/2009 10:12:41 PM PST by Gamecock
That is the likely scenario since belief always occurs before baptism (biblically anyway)...
In your case, maybe. There is an infinite variety of spiritual paths to salvation.
I've known many who have rejected the faith and belief of their youth and reject it, profaning the church whenever they can. Are they saved?
'Once saved, always saved' is a ridiculous heresy. Anyone can distance themselves from the Lord anytime they choose.
“Amerians??”
Cross between and Arminian and an American.
Well yeah, but that's only because I try to stay biblically accurate. ;^)
There is an infinite variety of spiritual paths to salvation.
If you mean each person travels a different road to get to Jesus then I can probably agree with you.
However if you are really saying that Jesus is only one way of many to get salvation then I disagree completely.
I've known many who have rejected the faith and belief of their youth and reject it, profaning the church whenever they can. Are they saved?
I'm not God so I don't know. Are they dead yet?
'Once saved, always saved' is a ridiculous heresy. Anyone can distance themselves from the Lord anytime they choose.
I suppose if you believe that you are the one that gets yourself to God then it only makes sense that you could actually distance yourself from God if you wanted to.
Me, I'll stick with thinking that what God does stays done . . . which includes my salvation.
(You don't read Galatians much, do you.)
Thanks, that’s what I thought. :)
Actually, I prefer the Gospels where the Lord teaches to keep his commandments to have eternal life. He even gave a new commandment to love your neighbor.
For me, belief, self examination and repentance is the start of the process of salvation. Faith is a combination of belief, shunning evils and goodwill to the neighbor. Salvation is a result of the Lord giving a new will (changing a heart of stone to a heart of flesh) after being born again.
Galatians is a nice Epistle but I'll take the Lord's Word over Paul's every time.
What initiates that process of "belief, self-examination and repentance?" Does God give you his Grace because you did those things?
Do you wake up one morning and decide that you haven't lived a very good life, tell God your sorry, and then he gives you saving Grace?
Galatians is a nice Epistle but I'll take the Lord's Word over Paul's every time.
All of the Bible is the Lord's Word, not just the red parts.
I don’t see your point. Belief is not a work. It’s something we adhere to, we take on.
Just because Scripture says we must repent and believe doesn’t mean it is something we do.
No, Scripture makes it clear our belief only comes because God works in us FIRST.
Thus, it is His work, NOT OURS.
Hence, grace alone.
Dear sir, I am afraid you mistake.
All of Scripture is God-breathed and profitable for teaching. It really matters not what you prefer...it matters what all of Scripture teaches.
Unfortunately, the Catholics are right when they point to issues like this with Protestantism. When removed from the Reformation foundation, this is what you get.....people twisting in the wind with their own view of Scripture.
That’s why the 5 Solas are so critical. You need all of Scripture. If it isn’t important, we wouldn’t have the Bible.
I don’t believe God to be the author of confusion.
He's not. But then again those verses are about the running of a gathering of believers.
The Lord wishes all salvation. He also grants us free will. I started the quoted paragraph with 'for me'. I was a dreadful sinner before I returned to the faith of my youth. My responsibility is to repent, as John the Baptist exclaimed.
So when it says in Acts 16:33 “And he and all his family were baptized.” It’s not talking about the jailer and his family, (who in the previous verse were told the Word of Lord), placing their trust in Christ and immediately expressing that faith by being baptized? It’s really talking about a running of a gathering of believers?
I don’t believe God to be the author of confusion.
So everything in scripture is perfectly clear to you?
In the post I replied to your presumably credo-baptist presuppositions led you to assume something that the text does not say. Covenantal paedobaptists also have a perfectly consistent way of interpreting family baptisms.
Now, your guilty of same thing you have accused me of!
I said "I don’t believe God to be the author of confusion.
But, just because God is not the author of confusion, doesn't mean that He has revealed everything that has happened or is going to happen, in exact detail, making everything perfectly clear to me, or to anyone else for that matter.. One day it's true we will be perfected, and know all things, but that won't be untill we enter eternity.
In regards to the post you replied to, I do believe that Scripture interprets Scripture. So in this particular case Acts Chap 16, the events surrounding the arrest of Paul and Silas, the way they responded to suffering, and the mighty acts of God brought the jailer to his knees. He finally knew he needed God's salvation. But how could he be reconciled to God? Paul and Silas's answer was simple-just believe on the Lord Jesus Christ No other work was needed.
Did God give you saving Grace because you examined your life and repented?
I was a dreadful sinner before I returned to the faith of my youth. My responsibility is to repent, as John the Baptist exclaimed.
And did God give you Grace because of those efforts of yours? Once you did those things did God owe you Grace as if it were payment for services rendered?
Any salvific system that does not start and end with God's Grace is not the one described in the Bible.
What? I was responding to the post talking about God not being the author of confusion. The verse which states this is 1 Cor 14:33 and that passage, like I said previously, is specifically talking about how a gathering of believers ought tu be run: without confusion.
The choice to accept grace is the individuals.
With that said, grace does not depend on works but works will be one of the effects of grace.
My mistake, I thought you were commenting on the Acts 16, discussion.
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