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To: Reno232
Ah the A team is here.

There is a fine line to be sure, but dealing with the LDs is a particularly difficult case. One there is a very well trained cadre of “sales” folks who have learned the art of persistence and slight of hand.

Secondly, and the most challenging as well as troubling is the proximity the LDS has the the Historic Christian faiths. See I will debate a Muslim or Jewish faithful, but it is pretty clear cut, they are distinctly different than my faith. They do not cross the line, they do not claim to be what they are not. A Jew is a Jew, a Muslim is a Muslim. Neither presents as a contradictory faith whilst claiming the mantle of Christ, claiming what is my Lord and savior and telling me I am wrong for it. And no, before you play that card, let me save you the trouble. We are not talking about the mild difference between Protestant and Catholic, those are nothing in the scheme of things and why so many ecumenical organizations work with Baptist, Methodist, Episcopalians as well as Catholics etc. breaking bread together. We are talking a whole new creation, one with essentitally its own oft changing doctrine and principles that are in many ways a 90 degree turn from 2000 (5000 if you count the Judeo Chritian tradition) years of Gods work.

As far as how I use my intellect, I am not tearing down any one, just presenting and dealing with facts. I understand how that is seen as tearing down when the other position is weak and has obvious "issues", ones that great pains and investment have been taken in fixing or hiding for several decades or more.

As far as using it to build up, been there done that as well, even for Mormons. Check my posts during the Prop 8 BS a few weeks ago. If anyone, even you, hell especially you or your church were attacked I would be the first to shoot the silly SOB who did it. I think you guys are nuts, but a good nuts. We all have crazy relatives we love just the same, but we would be remiss not to point out any issues.

But that is not the topic at hand is it. See that slight of hand, you guys are good at it, I give you that.

67 posted on 12/28/2008 4:11:27 PM PST by ejonesie22 (Stupidity has an expiration date 1-2-2013 *(Thanks Nana))
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To: ejonesie22
You're quite the enigma to me my FRiend. As I've stated, I think you're probably quite bright, well educated, you're a teacher/professor?, & generally well spoken. And yet your research methods tend to be somewhat lazy & your conclusions about religion even more lazy.

I'm not sure if you're a byproduct of teaching at the higher levels, where w/ few exceptions, it seems that it's no longer a search for the truth, but rather a search to further buttress one’s agenda as we find all too common in our country's universities these days.

You're obviously very conservative, & yet tend to use very liberal tactics when discussing religion. I might add those are the same tactics used by the MSM & anti-Christians against you & all Christians. I would venture a guess that when confronted w/ those kinds of tactics either through the media, or in person, you would not take kindly to those kinds of tactics.

The anti-Christians rarely seek research from informed Christians for their studies, reports, etc., but rather rely on those of one side on which to form a basis for their conclusions. They rarely if ever present arguments from both sides, or at least valid & complete arguments from both sides. They have an agenda, & it's driven by a one sided argument.

Despite your intellect & training, you tend to do likewise w/ your arguments here. I doubt very seriously that you have ever visited FAIR LDS or LDS.org for any lengthy research. I highly doubt you've read the BOM. I doubt you've ever had many substantive discussions w/ a knowledgeable member of the church. In fact, all of your conclusions presented in your posts seem to come directly from anti-LDS websites. When called out & shown you're wrong, you tend to demure rather than have a reasoned discussion. When asked to make the case for your own beliefs, you tend to divert back to the anti argument w/o answering the questions.

I really do believe you when you say that you would shoot the silly SOB that attacked our church. It's a very conservative thought & one that I admire greatly. I would do likewise for your church (well, maybe not shoot, but you get the idea). The issue is that you don't even KNOW if what you believe is right. I've asked on occasion for you to share how you KNOW that your beliefs are true. I've never received an answer, just a diversion. How can you knock another, when your own beliefs are not unquestioned in your own mind?

You say that you would be remiss to not point out the issues you have w/ the LDS church. I can respect that albeit I have issues w/ the way you do it. But what I can't understand, is when others have issues w/ what you believe, as I have expressed on several occasions, you refuse to make the argument for what you believe (i.e. the Trinity issue). You attack, but refuse to defend. Is that what you consider a biblical teaching? I'm sure you have problems w/ the way liberals & the MSM treat you, & yet you seem to have no reluctance for doing the same to us. The quandary is that I really do believe you're better than that.

How about a more reasoned approach, without the name calling & the derisive comments. We will undoubtedly not take leave of our positions, but at least there would be a higher level of respect, kind of like what conservatives espouse. Perhaps you might even understand us better. The 2 sides of every story is more than just a quaint cliche. Perhaps a discussion w/ someone who actually KNOWS the other side might be enlightening, rather than just relying on one very nefarious side. It's up to you & it might not be as scary as you think.

My best to you & yours for the coming year end.

104 posted on 12/29/2008 1:49:42 PM PST by Reno232
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