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1 posted on 12/25/2008 9:13:45 PM PST by restornu
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To: restornu

Check out this video:

http://www.irr.org/mit/lboa-video.html


96 posted on 12/26/2008 11:06:50 AM PST by cruise_missile
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To: restornu
In all charity, the Mormon religion is a counterfeit. Maybe it's a "better" counterfeit than Monopoly money, but a counterfeit all the same.

I continue to pray for your deliverance from this spiritual bondage.

105 posted on 12/26/2008 12:49:05 PM PST by fishtank (RINOs: Stuck inside of the GOP like spackle or paste. (We need a cleansing.))
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To: restornu
I [Jefferson] am a real Christian, that is to say a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus, very different from the preachers . . of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its author never said or did.

They have compounded from the heathen mysteries a system beyond the comprehension of man of which Jesus, were he to return on earth, would not recognize one feature. . . . It is the speculations of crazy theologians which have made a Babel out of religion (Saul K. Padover, Thomas Jefferson on Democracy, 1939, pp. 122-123).

Dang!

Ol' Tom sounds just like Ol' Joe!!

Neither can point to ANYTHING that is out of whack with SCRIPTURE!

Just a bunch of ACCUSATIONS and SMEARS.


And today; Joseph Smith's followers carry on in the Grand Tradition of the Founder.

111 posted on 12/26/2008 3:19:35 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: restornu
In Joseph Smith's day prominent Americans were disgusted with the creeds of Christendom.
 
 
In our day, the BIBLE is disgusted with the beginnings of MORMONISM...
 

KJV
 Galatians 1:6-9
 6.  I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
 7.  Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
 8.  But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
 9.  As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
 
 
 
 
ANYBODY???
 
Like this fine looking fellow???
 
 
 
 
 

2 Corinthians 11:12-15
 12.  But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
 13.  For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
 14.  And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
 15.  Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
 
 

Like THESE guys??
 
 
 
 
17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
 
 


 
Ephesians 2:1-2 
1.  And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:


 
1 Corinthians 4:17
  For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church.
 
1 Corinthians 11:2
   Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.
 
2 Thessalonians 2:15
   Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
 
2 Timothy 1:13
   Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
 
2 Timothy 3:14-15
 14.  But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
 15.  And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

112 posted on 12/26/2008 3:22:51 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: restornu

In Joseph Smith’s day prominent (Citizens of Nauvoo,Ill) were disgusted with the creeds of Mormonism - and did something about it....


196 posted on 12/27/2008 6:57:37 AM PST by x_plus_one (Muhammed and Allah = 2 memes destined for the ashheap of history.....)
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To: restornu; aMorePerfectUnion; Tennessee Nana; ejonesie22; greyfoxx39; Zakeet; All
This says this is an "excerpt" -- an excerpt from where? (Did I miss the original source of this being mentioned somewhere? And if I didn't miss it, why isn't it referenced? Is it common to post something as an "excerpt" and not give credit to the author or publisher?)

From this "excerpt" In Joseph Smith's day some of the most prominent Americans were disgusted with the creeds of Christendom.

So what? (Name me any period of time since Jesus came where there weren't "some prominent" people who were disgusted with the faith that followed Him...This wasn't unique to the early 1800s)

From the excerpt: It is also true that in Colonial America only about 5 percent of the population belonged to any church and that those who did come to America for religious reasons did not come here initially to seek freedom of religion except for themselves. This is certainly an indictment against religion in Joseph Smith's day.

This is bad historical writing. "The colonial period" was a rather broad period -- early 1600s into the latter 1700s...and if you broaden it to include "Joseph Smith's day" -- as this author does -- now you're talking about a 200-year stretch (as Smith was born, I believe 1806 and lived to 1844). In this 200-year stretch, you've got the revival periods like 1727, 1790s-1800, 1830s...so to cast all these ebb-and-flow periods in one lump sum of "5 % of the population belonging to any church" is just outrageous!

Yes, many estimates of latter 1700s (before 1790s) claimed only 6-8% of the population were church members. Ian Barnes and Charles Royster, in their book, The Historical Atlas of the American Revolution (2000), said it was more like 10-30% by 1775: “By 1775, some 70 to 90 percent of European colonists were unattached to any church.” (p. 28)

The authors (p. 29) go so far as to provide a pie chart by denomination within each of the first 14 colonies the % of church membership among the Anglicans, Baptists, RC, Quakers, Congregationalists, Dutch Reformed, Presbyterians, Mennonites, German churches. Needless to say, these pie charts show slim church membership.

But again, Resty, your unknown author cited here cast a broad net, claiming, ...in Colonial America only about 5 percent of the population belonged to any church

Barnes & Royster pointed out how church membership was at times quite high -- for example, during the Jonathan Edwards' years:

The construction of churches and congregations existed to help early settlers survive and to provide a focus for family life in the community. Between 1630 and 1660, New England church membership was between 70 and 80 percent of the adult population.” (p. 28 of Historical Atlas) [Higher % when you factor in kids]

Furthermore, Resty, your "author" then tries to extrapolate the low membership % during colonial times without...
(a) ...bothering to explain some reasons why church membership was low/lower...
(b) ...mentioning these lower points of membership were not occurring when Smith came out with his Book of Mormon (1830).

("A" above re: some reasons behind the low % of adult population as members included lack of churches in the frontier regions...along with the reality that black slaves -- prominent in the Southern colonies -- weren't allowed to join churches.)

("B" above re: 1830...Finney had his revival going in full bloom in 1830-1831...The Methodist Episcopal revival was in high gear in the 1830s...they doubled their numbers by 1840...Some Baptists claimed their revival years as being 1810-1850...with a home mission being a key 1832 spark...and camp meetings began in 1800 Kentucky and then spread to Tennessee...some revival authors (like James Orr) tie this to a 1792 "awakening" which expanded greatly in 1798).

Resty's "author": This is certainly an indictment against religion in Joseph Smith's day.

No, actually this presentation is an "indictment" vs. the historical discernment of the "author" and against the FREEPER who posted it!!! My bottom-line point I've made above is that this "author" deliberately ignores all these spiritual awakenings taking place during both the colonial period (1630 to 1660)...1727...1790s into early 1800s...as well as during the Smith period (1815-1831 in Smith's home of Western New York-- called the "burned over" district because so many revivalists had come through during that time)...

And that's what makes these "half-truths" an all-out lie, Resty...and you should be ashamed of such shoddy historical presentations! The fact is, though the author tries to state this, Smith's Book of Mormon didn't break thru during a spiritual "slump" in 1830 Western New York...there'd been 15 years of "revival" going on there! And it was accelerated all the more in 1830 by Finney!)

And the awakenings were evident elsewhere (Kentucky, 1800 and following; Tennessee ensued; New England had its ebb and flows; as did Ohio, etc. and all the many places Wesley had his camp meetings...)

247 posted on 12/27/2008 2:08:14 PM PST by Colofornian
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