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Calculating Christmas
Touchstone Magazine ^ | William J. Tighe

Posted on 12/09/2008 7:25:51 PM PST by hiho hiho

Many Christians think that Christians celebrate Christ’s birth on December 25th because the church fathers appropriated the date of a pagan festival. Almost no one minds, except for a few groups on the fringes of American Evangelicalism, who seem to think that this makes Christmas itself a pagan festival. But it is perhaps interesting to know that the choice of December 25th is the result of attempts among the earliest Christians to figure out the date of Jesus’ birth based on calendrical calculations that had nothing to do with pagan festivals.

Rather, the pagan festival of the “Birth of the Unconquered Son” instituted by the Roman Emperor Aurelian on 25 December 274, was almost certainly an attempt to create a pagan alternative to a date that was already of some significance to Roman Christians. Thus the “pagan origins of Christmas” is a myth without historical substance.

A Mistake

The idea that the date was taken from the pagans goes back to two scholars from the late seventeenth and early eighteenth centuries. Paul Ernst Jablonski, a German Protestant, wished to show that the celebration of Christ’s birth on December 25th was one of the many “paganizations” of Christianity that the Church of the fourth century embraced, as one of many “degenerations” that transformed pure apostolic Christianity into Catholicism. Dom Jean Hardouin, a Benedictine monk, tried to show that the Catholic Church adopted pagan festivals for Christian purposes without paganizing the gospel.

(Excerpt) Read more at touchstonemag.com ...


TOPICS: History; Theology
KEYWORDS: christmas
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Comment #41 Removed by Moderator

Comment #42 Removed by Moderator

To: Chris DeWeese

Jesus told us exactly what to do in memory of Him. Adopting a pagan holiday into Christianity ain’t it.

Yes and Amen!


43 posted on 12/10/2008 3:01:36 PM PST by Godsgirl
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To: Biggirl

What was the climate of CA 2000 years ago?


44 posted on 12/10/2008 3:34:34 PM PST by guitarplayer1953 (Psalm 83:1-8 is on the horizon.)
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To: dangus

Jesus was baptized at the age of 30 and ministered for 3.5 years.


45 posted on 12/10/2008 3:36:57 PM PST by guitarplayer1953 (Psalm 83:1-8 is on the horizon.)
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To: Nihil Obstat

What was the weather 2000 years ago?


46 posted on 12/10/2008 3:37:59 PM PST by guitarplayer1953 (Psalm 83:1-8 is on the horizon.)
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To: Varda

http://www.new-life.net/chrtms10.htm


47 posted on 12/10/2008 3:44:26 PM PST by guitarplayer1953 (Psalm 83:1-8 is on the horizon.)
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Comment #48 Removed by Moderator

To: Chris DeWeese
Would the King of the Jews have recorded his birthday in reference to the king of Rome?

That exactly what we have in the opening chapters of the gospels. Your theory makes not sense and has no biblical support.

49 posted on 12/10/2008 5:19:35 PM PST by topcat54 ("Friends don't let friends become dispensationalists.")
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To: Chris DeWeese; XeniaSt; Godsgirl
TC, Xenia (no, not the warrior princess, the poster) has stated very succinctly what the scriptures would indicate what time of year Jesus' birth would have occurred.

Actually, he hasn't. But I'm sure he appreciates your support.

So, for Jesus to have taken on flesh at Tabernacles would fit to fulfill the prophesy associated with that Holy Day, no?

What prophecy are you speaking of, and why doesn't the NT point to this prophecy ala Matt. 1:22?

There is no definitive timeline in the NT to halp us unequivocally pin down the exact date of Christ's birth.

50 posted on 12/10/2008 5:23:24 PM PST by topcat54 ("Friends don't let friends become dispensationalists.")
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To: Chris DeWeese
(well, His earthly birth, since His real birth was somewhere around "the beginning")

Are you a Jehovah's Witness?

51 posted on 12/10/2008 5:26:21 PM PST by topcat54 ("Friends don't let friends become dispensationalists.")
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Comment #52 Removed by Moderator

To: Chris DeWeese
What is abundantly clear is that He was not born in the dead of winter.

Not clear at all, unless you are already biased in that direction. Have you read Alfred Edersheim's argument for the traditional December date based on history and the writings of the rabbis?

No, and if you clicked on my name, you would know exactly who I am, tiger.

Then what did you mean by "since His real birth was somewhere around 'the beginning' "?

53 posted on 12/10/2008 6:06:46 PM PST by topcat54 ("Friends don't let friends become dispensationalists.")
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To: Chris DeWeese
No, and if you clicked on my name, you would know exactly who I am, tiger.

But you are not trinitarian?

54 posted on 12/10/2008 6:11:21 PM PST by topcat54 ("Friends don't let friends become dispensationalists.")
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Comment #55 Removed by Moderator

Comment #56 Removed by Moderator

To: Chris DeWeese
I was referencing John 1 where Jesus was with the Father in the beginning.

I guess the use of the word "birth" was confusing. Was Jesus born in the beginning or has He always existed with the Father and Spirit in the triune Godhead?

57 posted on 12/10/2008 6:16:40 PM PST by topcat54 ("Friends don't let friends become dispensationalists.")
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To: Chris DeWeese
Is this thread about that? Again, you can follow the links on my page here at FR to see what I believe.

I did, and your church homepage has the following ambiguous statement:

We believe that God is a Family, composed of the Father and the Son. The Holy Spirit is the Power that God uses in His Creation, and to inspire and develop the Christian as described in the pages of the Holy Bible.
Is that a trinitarian statement?
58 posted on 12/10/2008 6:21:15 PM PST by topcat54 ("Friends don't let friends become dispensationalists.")
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To: Chris DeWeese
Is this thread about that? Again, you can follow the links on my page here at FR to see what I believe.

I also found this interesting statement:

We also observe the seven Holy Days as described in Leviticus 23.
According to Leviticus 23:
1 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 "Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: 'The feasts of the Lord, which you shall proclaim to be holy convocations, these are My feasts. 3 'Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work on it; it is the Sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings. 4 'These are the feasts of the Lord, holy convocations which you shall proclaim at their appointed times. 5On the fourteenth day of the first month at twilight is the Lord's Passover . 6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to the Lord; seven days you must eat unleavened bread. 7 On the first day you shall have a holy convocation; you shall do no customary work on it. 8 But you shall offer an offering made by fire to the Lord for seven days. The seventh day shall be a holy convocation; you shall do no customary work on it.' " 9 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 10 "Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: 'When you come into the land which I give to you, and reap its harvest, then you shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest to the priest. 11 He shall wave the sheaf before the Lord, to be accepted on your behalf;on the day after the Sabbath the priest shall wave it . 12 And you shall offer on that day, when you wave the sheaf,a male lamb of the first year, without blemish, as a burnt offering to the Lord . 13 Its grain offering shall be two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil, an offering made by fire to the Lord, for a sweet aroma; and its drink offering shall be of wine, one-fourth of a hin. 14 You shall eat neither bread nor parched grain nor fresh grain until the same day that you have brought an offering to your God; it shall be a statute forever throughout your generations in all your dwellings. 15 'And you shall count for yourselves from the day after the Sabbath, from the day that you brought the sheaf of the wave offering: seven Sabbaths shall be completed. 16 Count fifty days to the day after the seventh Sabbath; then you shall offer a new grain offering to the Lord. 17 You shall bring from your dwellings two wave loaves of two-tenths of an ephah. They shall be of fine flour; they shall be baked with leaven. They are the firstfruits to the Lord. 18 And you shall offer with the breadseven lambs of the first year, without blemish, one young bull, and two rams . They shall be as a burnt offering to the Lord, with their grain offering and their drink offerings, an offering made by fire for a sweet aroma to the Lord. 19Then you shall sacrifice one kid of the goats as a sin offering, and two male lambs of the first year as a sacrifice of a peace offering . 20 The priest shall wave them with the bread of the firstfruits as a wave offering before the Lord, with the two lambs. They shall be holy to the Lord for the priest. 21 And you shall proclaim on the same day that it is a holy convocation to you. You shall do no customary work on it. It shall be a statute forever in all your dwellings throughout your generations. 22 'When you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not wholly reap the corners of your field when you reap, nor shall you gather any gleaning from your harvest. You shall leave them for the poor and for the stranger: I am the Lord your God.' " 23 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 24 "Speak to the children of Israel, saying: 'In the seventh month, on the first day of the month, you shall have a sabbath-rest, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, a holy convocation. 25 You shall do no customary work on it; and you shall offer an offering made by fire to the Lord.' " 26 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying: 27 "Also the tenth day of this seventh month shall be the Day of Atonement. It shall be a holy convocation for you; you shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire to the Lord. 28 And you shall do no work on that same day, for it is the Day of Atonement, to make atonement for you before the Lord your God. 29 For any person who is not afflicted in soul on that same day shall be cut off from his people. 30 And any person who does any work on that same day, that person I will destroy from among his people. 31 You shall do no manner of work; it shall be a statute forever throughout your generations in all your dwellings. 32 It shall be to you a sabbath of solemn rest, and you shall afflict your souls; on the ninth day of the month at evening, from evening to evening, you shall celebrate your sabbath." 33 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 34 "Speak to the children of Israel, saying: 'The fifteenth day of this seventh month shall be the Feast of Tabernacles for seven days to the Lord. 35 On the first day there shall be a holy convocation. You shall do no customary work on it. 36 For seven days you shall offer an offering made by fire to the Lord. On the eighth day you shall have a holy convocation, and you shall offer an offering made by fire to the Lord. It is a sacred assembly, and you shall do no customary work on it. 37 These are the feasts of the Lord which you shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire to the Lord, a burnt offering and a grain offering, a sacrifice and drink offerings, everything on its day-- 38 besides the Sabbaths of the Lord, besides your gifts, besides all your vows, and besides all your freewill offerings which you give to the Lord. 39 'Also on the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when you have gathered in the fruit of the land, you shall keep the feast of the Lord for seven days; on the first day there shall be a sabbath-rest, and on the eighth day a sabbath-rest. 40 And you shall take for yourselves on the first day the fruit of beautiful trees, branches of palm trees, the boughs of leafy trees, and willows of the brook; and you shall rejoice before the Lord your God for seven days. 41 You shall keep it as a feast to the Lord for seven days in the year. It shall be a statute forever in your generations. You shall celebrate it in the seventh month. 42 You shall dwell in booths for seven days. All who are native Israelites shall dwell in booths, 43 that your generations may know that I made the children of Israel dwell in booths when I brought them out of the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.' " 44 So Moses declared to the children of Israel the feasts of the Lord.
Do you have priests and offer burnt sacrifices of various animals according to Leviticus 23? Does your congregation live in booths for seven days? Do you only permit the ritually circumcised into your Passover (Exodus 12:44ff)? What parts do you leave out?
59 posted on 12/10/2008 6:35:23 PM PST by topcat54 ("Friends don't let friends become dispensationalists.")
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To: Biggirl

Ocean currents affect climate. England is the same latitude as canada. England is NOTHING like canada for weather. NOt even close.


60 posted on 12/10/2008 6:57:47 PM PST by mamelukesabre (Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum (If you want peace prepare for war))
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