Calculating Christmas

Touchstone Magazine ^ | William J. Tighe

[hiho hiho]

Many Christians think that Christians celebrate Christ’s birth on December 25th because the church fathers appropriated the date of a pagan festival. Almost no one minds, except for a few groups on the fringes of American Evangelicalism, who seem to think that this makes Christmas itself a pagan festival. But it is perhaps interesting to know that the choice of December 25th is the result of attempts among the earliest Christians to figure out the date of Jesus’ birth based on calendrical calculations that had nothing to do with pagan festivals.

Rather, the pagan festival of the “Birth of the Unconquered Son” instituted by the Roman Emperor Aurelian on 25 December 274, was almost certainly an attempt to create a pagan alternative to a date that was already of some significance to Roman Christians. Thus the “pagan origins of Christmas” is a myth without historical substance.

A Mistake

The idea that the date was taken from the pagans goes back to two scholars from the late seventeenth and early eighteenth centuries. Paul Ernst Jablonski, a German Protestant, wished to show that the celebration of Christ’s birth on December 25th was one of the many “paganizations” of Christianity that the Church of the fourth century embraced, as one of many “degenerations” that transformed pure apostolic Christianity into Catholicism. Dom Jean Hardouin, a Benedictine monk, tried to show that the Catholic Church adopted pagan festivals for Christian purposes without paganizing the gospel.

[IbJensen]

*Twas the month before Christmas*
*When all through our land,*
*Not a Christian was praying*
*Nor taking a stand.*
*The politically correct police had taken away,*
*The reason for Christmas - no one could say.*
*The children were told by their schools not to sing,*
*About Shepherds and Wise Men and Angels and things.*
*It might hurt people’s feelings, the teachers would say*
*December 25th is just a “ Holiday “.*

*Yet the shoppers were ready with cash, checks and credit*
*Pushing folks down to the floor just to get it!*
*CDs from Madonna, an X BOX, an I-pod*
*Something was changing, something quite odd! *
*Retailers promoted Ramadan and Kwanzaa*
*In hopes to sell books by Franken & Fonda.*
*As Targets were hanging their trees upside down*
*At Lowe’s the word Christmas - was no where to be found.*
*At K-Mart and Staples and Penny’s and Sears*
*You won’t hear the word Christmas; it won’t touch your ears.*

*Inclusive, sensitive, Di-ver-is-ty*
*Are words that were used to intimidate me.*
*Now Daschle, Now Darden, Now Sharpton, Wolf Blitzen*
*On Boxer, on Rather, on Kerry, on Clinton !*
*At the top of the Senate, there arose such a clatter*
*To eliminate Jesus, in all public matter.*
*And we spoke not a word, as they took away our faith*
*Forbidden to speak of salvation and grace*
*The true Gift of Christmas was exchanged and discarded*
*The reason for the season, stopped before it started.*

*So as you celebrate “Winter Break” under your “Dream Tree”*
*Sipping your Starbucks, listen to me.*
*Choose your words carefully, choose what you say*

*Shout MERRY CHRISTMAS, not Happy Holiday!*

[Biggirl]

It gets cold in Palistine? Is it not in the same earth pararal as southern CA?

[Cvengr]

Somebody is probably wearing him on their shoulder....

[dangus]

I don’t know where on earth you get that it is known he lived for 33.5 years. There is no information at all to suppose that. He was born anywhere between 10 BC and 1 BC, and died anytime between 27 AD and 33 AD. The supposed age of about 33 is derived by only by supposing 5 BC and 30 BC as most-likely midpoints. (There is no 0 BC, so 30 AD is only 34 years after 5 BC.)

Your first two arguments are the same argument: that it’s cold in Palestine in December. However, the Roman Warm Period was at its peak, and it may not have been so cold. Besides, I’ve seen a hundred cases where skeptical researchers claimed the bible had to be false because it got ancient Palestine and its culture, only to find out that ancient Palestine was different then they thought. I know this is only tradition, not the word of the bible, but I still don’t presume the skeptics have to be right. After all, shepherding cultures in Greece and Italy thought the date quite plausible in the 2nd century.

The bible does seem to be drawing a purposeful parallel between Jesus and the Temple. When Jesus is conceived, the bible says Mary was “overshadowed with the Holy Spirit,” using a word only elsewhere used to describe the Spirit of God in the Temple. One could use the same reasoning that 25 Chislev is Christmas to suppose that 25 Chislev is actually the date of the conception of Christ, when these events happened, which Catholics suppose is March 25th, the Feast of the Annunciation. That would put his birth somewhere about 25 September, near the anniversary of creation.

Either way, the point is that the early Christians were using the bible to suppose the date of Christ’s birth, not as the haters of Christmas suppose, Saturnalia or Sol Invictus.

[dangus]

>> What’s the point, you ask? His birthday (well, His earthly birth, since His real birth was somewhere around “the beginning”) would have been recorded on the Hebrew calendar, not the Julian or Gregorian. <<

That’s right. December 25 is an approximation of Chislev 25.

[muawiyah]

You can find out all about Kvenland, and the invasion of the Orkney Isles right here: http://www.kvenland.com/

[muawiyah]

Notice that King Frosti is way back there in the FIRST CENTURY AD or thereabouts.

This is really ancient stuff. He apears to be an ancestor to everyone who is descended from Robert the Bruis (which includes everybody who's a descendant of William Alexander (Lord Stirling).

I thought "Frosty" was about a snowman who became animated. It's more like "Frosty" was a Finnish King who was defeated by the Norse at the founding of Sweden. There have to be children's fairy tales that include him.

[hiho hiho]

Sounds like someone has been smoking some rather strong Frankincense.

[Nihil Obstat]

60 degree high / 45 degree low is much too cold?

http://www.weather.com/outlook/travel/businesstraveler/extended/ISXX0010

The Temple flock was enormous, it had to be shepherded around Bethlehem throughout the year.

[Varda]

About the cold Palestine winter and shepherds -

1. If you google up the climate of Jerusalem you’ll find the average LOW temp in December listed anywhere from 43 to 50 degrees. This hardly the harsh winter climate of northern latitudes.

2. In Israel, sheep lamb out of doors (in the fields) in December. Again this is because we are not talking about a northern latitude. The indigenous sheep of Israel is the Awassi.

Therefore these two points cannot be used as arguments against Dec 25th as a date for Jesus’ birth.

[Uri’el-2012]

It gets cold in Palistine? Is it not in the same earth pararal as southern CA?

Check google Earth.

Bethlehem is 2500 feet in elevation.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach Adonai

[mamelukesabre]

You misunderstand my post. I’m poking fun at the way people celebrate christmas and also at this article.

[topcat54]

Jesus Christ, A.K.A Emanuel, A.K.A Yeshua, was a Jew. ... His birthday (well, His earthly birth, since His real birth was somewhere around "the beginning") would have been recorded on the Hebrew calendar, not the Julian or Gregorian.

The conclusion is not justified since there is an (implied) faulty premise: Jews only have their birthdates recorded on the Hebrew calendar. By fixing the premise you discover the nature of the logical fallacy.

- Jesus was a Jew
- Some Jews have their birthdates recorded on the Hebrew calendar
- Therefore, Jesus would not have had his birthdate recorded on the Roman calendar

Some dates in the NT are recorded in terms of the Roman system, e.g., "Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar". There is nothing in Scripture that requires us to accept the (implied) faulty premise: Jews only have their birthdates recorded on the Hebrew calendar.

[Uri’el-2012]

Your author seems totally ignorant of the Word of G-d.

Particularly Luke 1, John 1 and Chronicles.

The question is whether you believe and trust
the Holy Word of Elohim in Luke 1
or you trust the traditions of man

Yah'shua's birth on Sukkot
(Sukkot is the Feast of Tabernacles or booths,
where we live in temporary shelters.
Sukkot is when YHvH took on a temporary
garment to be with His People
and to die as the Lamb of G-d on Pesach
in order to bring salvation to all
who would call on His Name: Yah'shua
( YHvH is become my salvation)).

Sukkot as the date is supported by Elizabeth's
pregnancy of John the Immerser.
The time sequence is outlined by the
Holy Word of Elohim in Luke 1 with Zacharias.

Zacharias served as a high priest and
based on his tribe, we know when he served
(1 Chronicles 24:7-18) and when he was
struck dumb and when John was conceived.

John would have been born on Pesach.
Most Jews believed that Elijah
would come at Pesach to announce
the coming of the Messiah (Malachi 4:5).

Factor in when Miriam visited her cousin Elizabeth,
Elizabeth was six months pregnant (Luke 1:26)
Thus the timing of Yah'shua's birth can be ascertained.

John (1:14) tells us that Yah'shua was made flesh
and tabernacled among us.

The word "dwelt" in the Koine Greek is:

σκηνόω Strong's G4637 - skēnoō
1) to fix one's tabernacle,
have one's tabernacle,
abide (or live) in a tabernacle (or tent),
tabernacle
2) to dwell

Eight days after the beginning of Sukkot is
another Holy Feast Day called Shemini Atzeret.

Eight days after a Jewish male is born he is circumcised.

After the Eighth day comes the the most Joyous day:
Simchat Torah or
the rejoicing in the Torah (The Word of Elohim).

Nine months back from Sukkot is Chanukah
where the light entered the temple.

Biblical Dates for the Birth of Yochanan the Immerser
and for the Conception and Birth of Yeshua HaMashiach

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach Adonai

[Godsgirl]

So apparently, christians invented the practice of evergreen tree worshipping on the night of december 24th. Then pagans stole the idea.

Doesn’t Jeremiah 10 talk about that pagan worship practice. The hewing down of trees, fastening them and decorating them with silver and gold.

[Godsgirl]

Then what does the feast of Tabernacles represent?

[Godsgirl]

Beautifully stated.

[topcat54]

Sukkot is when YHvH took on a temporary garment to be with His People

What does that mean, "temporary garment"?

[topcat54]

Yah'shua's birth on Sukkot (Sukkot is the Feast of Tabernacles or booths,

One odd aspect to this unsupported theory, with all the trouble the NT writers went through to demonstrate that Jesus was the fulfillment of the Law and Prophets, one would think that if Jesus were actually born on Tabernacles that the writers would have made explicit use of that fact. But, on the contrary, we find to direct reference to the date of His birth. The best that can be done is to paste together some possible scenarios that may or may not fit all the historical facts.

20 But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins." 22 So all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying: 23 "Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel," which is translated, "God with us." (Matt. 1)

Now, there is no doubt that Jesus is the true Tabernacle come down from heaven (Heb. 9:11). But it does not appear that God gave us the date to demonstrate this fact.