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To: Petrosius
Despite the real shortcomings of the Novus Ordo compared to the TLM, I would hazard to guess that you would agree that the Mass in the video is a valid and dignified liturgy

Without a doubt. But it is not a norm. It is part of the rainbow of "norms" practiced across the Catholic spectrum. So, which is the norm? Obviously, depends where you are! That's not what catholic means, and you know that.

That's precisely why the Council of Trent made the TLM mandatory with very few exceptions within the Latin Rite.

If you look again at my post you will see that I was referring to the disobedience of Catholics. If I misunderstood, I apologize.

The Patriarch was not required to kiss the feet of the Pope at Ferrara/Florence. Nor is it even a part of the present papal protocol, so why bring it up?

It was a illustration to make a point of submission to the ope as the "supreme" being in the Church. He is the elder patriarch to us. Not a ruler. That's never going to change.

Constantly bringing up past offenses rather than addressing the present situation only serves to rub salt into the wound and is against our Lord's admonition to forgive one another

I agree. No need to dig up the past. Let's just have the list of what the Catholic Church wants form us in order to make reunion possible. And what does the Catholic Church offer in return to make it worth our consideration.

The past is water under the bridge. I really don't care what was done because no one can fix it. Let's hear what we can do, how and why.

234 posted on 12/12/2008 5:19:07 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50
[The pope] is the elder patriarch to us. Not a ruler. That's never going to change.

But it has changed! While I would not characterize the popes in the first millennium as rulers, they were, even in the East, more that just the elder patriarch. The councils themselves are filled with examples of the popes being addressed as the shepherd of the entire church. Protestations by the Orthodox to the contrary will not change the historical facts.

236 posted on 12/12/2008 5:44:12 PM PST by Petrosius
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