>> On the same basis as all along—the liturgy. <<
And through what part of the liturgy was the East able to discern the mind of the West? Which icons depict the distinction between economic and ultimate issuances? It’s a wonderful sounding assertion, but one which doesn’t further the discussion at all.
>> The early Church did not have catechisms. They just had the liturgy. <<
No, they also had oral catechesis under the direct tutelage of the bishops until the ratio of catechumen to bishops was to vast, then pastors (shepherds) took over in the bishops place.
>> People in the East in 1436 had the same liturgy for over 1,000 years. That’s the only way one can tell if it is still orthodox. If you change your service every so often, or your catechism, or you introduce different rites and “ordinary” and “extraodinary” Masses, how are you to know what is orthodox and what is not? <<
I certainly agree that the Post-Vatican church is rife with abuses that promote heresy. That’s why Benedict is so insistent at reforming the mistranslations of ICEL and reigning in such abuses. On the other hand, the Soviets embedded Christian-looking rituals into their party initiation, and so many Russian citizens exchanged their faith for the domination of genocidal maniacs, with the complete capitulation of the Russian church, which defiled the sacrifices of so many thousands of heroic martyred priests who died defending the true faith. Can’t we agree that such abominable accomodations to the modern age are rife in both East and West, and discuss doctrine rather than trade pictures of clown masses with Russian bishops hugging and saluting their Soviet masters?
You write as if clown masses were part of the Gregorian or Tridentine masses!
And through what part of the liturgy was the East able to discern the mind of the West? Which icons depict the distinction between economic and ultimate issuances? The error would have been discerned in the singing of the Creed containing the filioque.
No, they also had oral catechesis under the direct tutelage of the bishops until the ratio of catechumen to bishops was to vast, then pastors (shepherds) took over in the bishops place
Orthodox faithful have spiritual fathers to whom they direct specific questions and doubts.
Russian citizens exchanged their faith for the domination of genocidal maniacs
You don't know much about communism, do you? Only old women could go to churches without being harrassed or accused of counterrevolutionary activities. It was a totalitarian society, wiht gulgas and worse. The Catholic Church abuses were done in democracies, by choice.
You write as if clown masses were part of the Gregorian or Tridentine masses! I am writing to find out why the Catholic laity observed all this and did nothing. Although Catopic site are erasing many compormising pricutres, the records have been preserved and the truth cannot be obliterated.
How do you like this one?
Catholic priest holding some kind of a "potato chip" and a glass chalice during "conscration." The sheep looked on and said nothing.