Posted on 11/10/2008 12:21:00 PM PST by Ebenezer
You claim to be conservative. If so, then you are a minority in your church. Whose fault is that? It certainly is not the fault of Protestants that you are in a minority faction of your church.
The majority of Catholics voted for Obama. Rather than acknowledge that, you want to claim those people are not Catholic. Burying your head in the sand won't change anything.
So how does the Catholic Church change so that you are not in the minority? What steps does it take to make that minority a majority?
“So how does the Catholic Church change so that you are not in the minority? What steps does it take to make that minority a majority?”
The bishops have to start treating abortion as what they say it is.
Freegards
I agree. They seem to turn up the heat on the issue every 4 years at election time, and then they put it on the back burner to simmer the rest of the time. I am still waiting for Biden and Pelosi to be denied communion. I will be waiting a long time.
I’d like to further see added to these polling numbers something like:
“Are you a Catholic voter?” and “what is the name of your parish?” as if this needed to be cross checked.
Because otherwise, I think a good number of these Catholics really are not authentic followers of the Faith and of Christ’s Vicar on Earth.
I suppose This statement from the catholic charities usa website fosters individual responsibility
Catholic Charities USA supports tax policies that strengthen low-income families and individuals and address the needs of the poor and the vulnerable. This includes expanding the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC), which is widely credited with lifting millions of families and individuals out of poverty every year. Catholic Charities USA also supports protecting low-income persons receiving EITC from predatory financial practices in tax preparation servicesI'm giving you the benefit of the doubt by considering you a bigoted ignoramus, but I have my suspicions that you're a redistributionist trying to cover the blatantly socialist orientation of the Catholic bureaucracy with your lies. .
Riverdawg,
I’m sorry that you’ve seen so many Obama stickers at your kids’ Catholic school. Glad to say that that has not been my experience, as at our kids’ school, McCain had an overwhelming advantage.
I know it’s not scientific or anything, but the day before the real election, the school held a mock election for the upper grades (4-8). My oldest son came home ecstatic because McCain won by a whopping 82%-16% (some voted for Ralph Nader). I asked him who voted for Obama and he gave me the names of those he knew — they were the few non-Catholics in his grade. (They were also black.) Interestingly enough, the black kids who ARE Catholic voted McCain.
Needless to say, my son was bitterly disappointed last Wednesday morning.
As an aside, my youngest son recently forgot a book he needed for homework and we went back to school to fetch it. We arrived at the same time as the CCD kids were arriving for religious ed. The parking lot held many cars with Obama stickers — and they were NOT black families. There is a definite split between those who take their Catholicism seriously and those who don’t.
BTW, I live on Long Island in an area that went for McCain at the same rate as Mass-going Catholics: 54%-46%. That’s a pretty high number for Metro NY.
Regards,
...to borrow the words of President Reagan:
"I didn't leave the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church left me."
(BTW, I still am a part of, and will always practice, the Catholic faith...)
***To so many, and this includes Catholics who I know, they have been consumed by secular things and have forgotten that we are truly accountable for what we do and what we stand for. Sometimes we as a people need adversity to remember where our secular place belongs and that our true source of life is far greater than any political cause or ideology. Blessings sometimes come in disguise - we will see. ***
The Lord will not abandon His Church; as it so often happens, many churchgoers abandon Him...
***That sounds very Tolkein-ish :-P***
Tolkein was a good Catholic, by the accounts I have read. LOTR was written as a Catholic morality play.
At any rate, it is true. To those whom much is given, much is expected. We have been given the Church; it is up to us, with the grace and help of the Holy Spirit, to live up to that. We will fall short, yet much like Mithrandir, we must persevere but we must never, like Saruman, fall into despair. Despair and despite are the gifts of satan; love and faith are the gifts of God.
Explain what you disagree with regarding this summary of Rerum Novarum, since you seem to think the Church is a socialist organization. Do you believe workers don't have a right to unionize? Do you believe that free markets untempered by personal morality are desirable? Catholic Charities is not the Church.
He absolutely was, and he fought to drag Lewis along with him.
bigoted ignoramous? That’s the best you can do? How about puerile and obfuscatory, or myopic and boorish? If you want to swing vocabulary instead of something else, brush up on your William F. Buckley, now there was a man who knew how to insult people.
If you’re going to throw insults, bring more than excerpts and the abridged dictionary. As far as bigotry goes, your blatantly anti-Catholic screed shows that you are engaging in nothing more than projection. In the thread I also listed two Papal Encyclicals, maybe you want to try reading something rather than burning it.
Redistributionist? You obviously know nothing about me, or my economic stance which is an embrace of Adam Smith, free markets, and supply side economics. Your anti-catholicism puts me in mine of a quote by Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen:
“Not more than a hundred people in the world hate the Catholic Church; thousands however hate what they think it is.”
***He absolutely was, and he fought to drag Lewis along with him.***
And Lewis was much the better man for it.
The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe was a great work; yet it pales beside the epochal creation of Tolkein. LOTR was such a small portion of his works. The Silmarillion and the Unfinished Tales, together with the rest of his creations have an unparalled universe, yet still very much a Catholic morality play. The evolution of Morgoth is very pointed, for instance.
You may wave some piece of paper and say "look here they say they're not socialists." But, the reality is that what they say and what they do are two totally different things.
Marxists are wrapping their ideology in Catholicism. They are using terms such as “Social and Economic Justice” to advance their deception. We must find a way to challenge them.
I have asked several of them, “by what means would these programs be administered?”
Quoting Rerum Novarum (written in 1891)at me shows just how totally out of it you really are. (or maybe how naive you think I am) You're either blind enough to think that a piece of paper written over a hundred years ago has some sort of power over the current church bureaucracy or you're thinking that this wins you some sort of debating point. Got news fer ya Jack, That was then and this is now. As I explained to another poster, what they say and what they do are two different things. Catholic Charities USA is a good source of getting what they really are up to today - like this gem:
Catholic social teaching tells us that every person has a basic human right to adequate health care.
Sound familiar? It is one of the UN's so-called rights. - something called a positive right. If you have a "right" to health care (which I firmly believe you do not) then someone by definition has an OBLIGATION to provide you that health care. Either health care professionals are to be forced to provide it without compensation, or the taxpayers are to be robbed of their hard earned cash to pay for other peoples' wants. This is SOCIALISM my freeper friend and it is espoused by the catholic church regardless of something written by Leo XIII.
The Church doesn't move at the same pace as modern society. Rerum Novarum absolutely holds power over the modern Church. If you were looking at most Catholic scholarship, you will see that it is generally faithful to that letter.
Catholic Charities USA is a good source of getting what they really are up to today
No, it's not - you have apparently invested in them a teaching authority which it does not have. It has a total of 4 clergy and religious on its board (of 20+) and 1 priest on the member of its executive staff. If you think that is enough to speak authoritatively for the Church, you are sorely mistaken. It is about as useful as "Catholics for a Free Choice" is in understanding the Church.
Now, you can probably find a small number of Bishops who espouse the same thing, but that still would not prove your point. A single Bishop is not the Magisterium.
Would the American Conference of Catholic Bishops make up a "small number of bishops?"
Rerum Novarum absolutely holds power over the modern Church
We disagree, and the evidence is on my side. look at the agenda of the American conference of catholic bishops It reads like the Democratice party platform with support for minimum wage, environmentalism, the worship of the poor, wealth transfer, etc. You are clinging to the past, but the Catholic heirarchy has moved on (.org)
I forgot to mention that you should look under the “social justice” header for the marxist teachings of the American conference of catholic bishops. If you’re unaware of this it should be an eye opener. I especially like their support for “easing global poverty” by fleecing the us taxpayers. This is right from the obomination’s play book. If you’re aware of it, then with your “rerun novarum” comment you are dishonestly trying to pull the wool over anyone whose bored ehough to read this thread’s eyes as to the nature of the church today.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.