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To: Truth Defender
I would disagree here. And I imagine Ken would also. The Scriptures do not give any indication, explicit or implicit, that man has a "soul", especially that a "soul" is immortal. In fact, it says the opposite; the complete man is mortal. Ken's article points that out in many places, and backs it up with documentation. The Catholic church teaches that man has an immortal soul residing within the body - Plato's idea! Thusly (sorry for that word), they propagate that part of Plato's theory and have made it a dogma of their church. Protestantism has done the same thing - mainly through Calvin.

Are you disagreeing with my account of the catechism or with the catechism?

If the latter, I'm REALLY confused.

First The catechism doesn't say we "have" a soul. On the other hand, if IHS says "MY psyche is troubled," (John 12:27) then even our Lord sometimes uses language suggesting something sorta kinda like "having".

The Catechism uses words like aspect, after saying certainly the word is used to denote the entire human person. I think you would find paragraphs 362 - 368 of the catechism not quite so Platonic as all that.

Now, could you tell me where Aristotle says that he believed that man had an immortal soul residing within the body, ... I would not characterize either or Aristotle's or Thomas Aquinas's thought that way, though, while unfamiliar (lately) with both, I am a tad less unfamiliar with Thomas. He is highly technical in his section on the soul, but, speaking loosely and maybe wrongly, I'd say he would say, strictly speaking, a man "has" a soul no more than a fire has burning.

I will eagerly admit that the popular notion of soul is mostly sort of Platonic. Aquinas interestingly refers to Paul's talking of "the inner man".

My outer man has to go eat supper.

30 posted on 10/18/2008 3:52:29 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Mad Dawg
I will eagerly admit that the popular notion of soul is mostly sort of Platonic.

Then you "mostly sort of" agree with what Ken wrote.

My outer man has to go eat supper.

I hope your psuche enjoyed the meal :-)

Are you disagreeing with my account of the catechism or with the catechism?

Both, in a certain way. While it admits that man himself is a soul, it still maintains that a soul is immortal; and does not present any proof that it is immortal (other than the assertion).

Now, could you tell me where Aristotle says that he believed that man had an immortal soul residing within the body, ... I would not characterize either or Aristotle's or Thomas Aquinas's thought that way, though, while unfamiliar (lately) with both, I am a tad less unfamiliar with Thomas.

While it has been ages since I've looked at what Aristotle had to say on any subject, it may be in his "De Anima (On the Soul)". As with any philosopher, they all seem to speculate or assume many things. I don't consider either of these men to be the "authority" one should look to for their beliefs of Christianity.

34 posted on 10/19/2008 8:15:30 AM PDT by Truth Defender (History teaches, if we but listen to it; but no one really listens!)
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To: Mad Dawg
I will eagerly admit that the popular notion of soul is mostly sort of Platonic.

Then you "mostly sort of" agree with what Ken wrote.

My outer man has to go eat supper.

I hope your psuche enjoyed the meal :-)

Are you disagreeing with my account of the catechism or with the catechism?

Both, in a certain way. While it admits that man himself is a soul, it still maintains that a soul is immortal; and does not present any proof that it is immortal (other than the assertion).

Now, could you tell me where Aristotle says that he believed that man had an immortal soul residing within the body, ... I would not characterize either or Aristotle's or Thomas Aquinas's thought that way, though, while unfamiliar (lately) with both, I am a tad less unfamiliar with Thomas.

While it has been ages since I've looked at what Aristotle had to say on any subject, it may be in his "De Anima (On the Soul)". As with any philosopher, they all seem to speculate or assume many things. I don't consider either of these men to be the "authority" one should look to for their beliefs of Christianity.

35 posted on 10/19/2008 8:19:48 AM PDT by Truth Defender (History teaches, if we but listen to it; but no one really listens!)
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