Posted on 08/06/2008 8:58:59 AM PDT by koinonia
More than two centuries before the Reformation, a theological debate broke out that pitted theologian Thomas Aquinas against an upstart from Britain, John Duns Scotus. In essence, the debate circled around the question, "Would Christmas have occurred if humanity had not sinned?"
Whereas Aquinas viewed the Incarnation as God's remedy for a fallen planet, his contemporary saw much more at stake. For Duns Scotus, the Word becoming flesh as described in the prologue to John's Gospel must surely represent the Creator's primary design, not some kind of afterthought or Plan B. Aquinas pointed to passages emphasizing the Cross as God's redemptive response to a broken relationship. Duns Scotus cited passages from Ephesians and Colossians on the cosmic Christ, in whom all things have their origin, hold together, and move toward consummation.
Did Jesus visit this planet as an accommodation to human failure or as the center point of all creation? Duns Scotus and his school suggested that Incarnation was the underlying motive for Creation, not merely a correction to it. Perhaps God spun off this vast universe for the singular purpose of sharing life and love, intending all along to join its very substance. "Eternity is in love with the inventions of time," wrote the poet William Blake...
(Excerpt) Read more at christianitytoday.com ...
“faith without works is dead.” (James 2:20). I don’t believe that Sola fide is biblical. As men of faith, we have to strive to enter by the narrow gate for, as Jesus said, not all who say Lord, Lord shall enter (cf. Luke 13:23-28).
In his NAME...
That's whay the Church taught and still teaches 2,000 years later. We can't simply "accept" Jesus and get a limo ride to heaven.
Thank you for sharing your beliefs. I am sorry if I sound harsh sometimes. If we are all sinners we cannot judge others. It would be like a child molester calling a rapist "criminal."
We all go through the stage of religious pride, especially when some things are revealed to us. It is energizing and even exhilarating. It's also a gift and some people use their blessings for the evil while others for the good in God's name. Hopefully we will all learn to do the latter.
All the best to you.
Yancy is a post-modern Evangelical which is essentially a subjectivist theology that denies one can make propositional statements (i.e. Negative theology).
When that happens atonement theories become irrelevant and subjective naval gazing become the norm for ethics.
Yancy is a Greek Christian dressed in Protestant clothing.
Thanks for the info on Yancey. In the original article he quotes a subjectivist Catholic theologian too, Fr. Karl Rahner--from what I understand, he is pretty much the "father of modernism and subjectivism" in Catholic circles today.
Nonetheless, without diminishing the importance of our redemption in Christ, some of Yancey's points taken from John Duns Scotus are worth reflecting upon. A Christ centered universe before the foundations of the world, even if Adam had not sinned, is not only not contrary to the Bible, but can even be said to be very biblical (Ephesians 1:3-12; Colossians 1:15-20; etc.).
At any rate, this sinner needs Christ as Redeemer and reflecting upon God's loving and merciful plan for me and all the world in Christ has never been a waste of time. God bless you.
I’ve run into that same arguement from one FR O’Keefe in an article I read somewhere. Don’t know much about Scotus. If the main assertion is, as I read it, that the Incarnation is an actual ontological fact throughout history then I believe we would face some real difficult theological challenges. Perhaps a different categorical claim could be made.
Thanks for writing. Grace to you.
So any position he holds is going to be far from the likes of Blessed John Duns Scotus, St. Francis de Sales, or St. Lawrence of Brindisi who at least believed that Jesus was God and that he redeemed us from our sins.
I didn’t see that in the article I read but that is scary!
Perhaps it’s another “Fr. O’Keefe”? But here’s the link to the article I found (definitely not promoting this one): http://www.catholica.com.au/forum/forum_entry.php?id=15341
Maybe we should post this one on FR and see the reaction ;-) Praise God there are still believers out there in spite of the nonsense!
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