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To: annalex; Forest Keeper
God does not have to respect them, but by and large, God lets us make our own decisions, yes.

If God loved those who will end up in hell as much as he loved those he is going to spend eternity with in heaven, then why would God respect their decision to reject his grace? Why would he not interfere with THAT decision?

Maybe God would not interfere with your decision to choose between wheat bread or white bread or between paper or plastic, but why would a loving God not interfere in every way possible with a decision that will affect the eternal destiny of those he truly loves?

How much can he love you if he "respects" your decision to reject him?

Reformers believe that God does, in fact, interfere with THAT decision and but for his interference, we would follow our natural desires and reject God' grace outright.

God loves his sheep and ultimately it is God who makes sheep out of goats. The sheep will follow the Shepherd, the goats will stay and graze on trash.

980 posted on 08/09/2008 10:29:43 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: P-Marlowe; Forest Keeper
Why would he not interfere with THAT decision?

For the same reason a man in love, when rejected, does not proceed to rape the object of his love.

985 posted on 08/09/2008 10:33:31 AM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: P-Marlowe
Perhaps this will help you understand free will better?

From Saint Thomas Aquinas

That Divine Providence is not inconsistent with Freedom of the Will

THE government of every prudent governor is ordained to the perfection of the things governed, to the gaining, or increasing, of maintenance of that perfection. An element of perfection then is more worthy of being preserved by providence than an element of imperfection and defect. But in inanimate things the contingency of causes comes of imperfection and defect: for by their nature they are determined to one effect, which they always gain, unless there be some let or hindrance arising either from limitation of power, or the interference of some external agent, or indisposition of subject-matter; and on this account natural causes in their action are not indifferent to either side of an alternative, but for the most part produce their effects uniformly, while they fail in a minority of instances. But that the will is a contingent cause comes of its very perfection, because its power is not tied to one effect, but it rests with it to produce this effect or that, wherefore it is contingent either way. * Therefore providence is more concerned to preserve the liberty of the will than to preserve contingency in natural causes.

2. It belongs to divine providence to use things according to their several modes. But a thing's mode of action depends upon its form, which is the principle of action. But the form whereby a voluntary agent acts is not determinate: for the will acts through a form apprehended by the intellect; and the intellect has not one determined form of effect under its consideration, but essentially embraces a multitude of forms;* and therefore the will can produce multiform effects.

3. The last end of every creature is to attain to a likeness to God (Chap. XVII): therefore it would be contrary to providence to withdraw from a creature that whereby it attains the divine likeness. But a voluntary agent attains the divine likeness by acting freely, as it has been shown that there is free will in God (B. I, Chap. LXXXVIII).

4. Providence tends to multiply good things in the subjects of its government. But if free will were taken away, many good things would be withdrawn. The praise of human virtue would be taken away, which is nullified where good is not done freely: the justice of rewards and punishments would be taken away, if man did not do good and evil freely: wariness and circumspection in counsel would be taken away, as there would be no need of taking counsel about things done under necessity. It would be therefore contrary to the plan of providence to withdraw the liberty of the will.*

Hence it is said: God made man from the beginning, and left him in the hand of his own counsel: before man is life and death, whatever he shall please shall be given him (Ecclus xv, 14-17).

Hereby is excluded the error of the Stoics, who said that all things arose of necessity, according to an indefeasible order, which the Greeks called ymarmene (heimarmenê).

Links to above
Chap. XVII
http://www2.nd.edu/Departments/Maritain/etext/gc3_17.htm

B. I, Chap. LXXXVIII
http://www2.nd.edu/Departments/Maritain/etext/gc1_88.htm

I hope all is well with you and your family,since it's been awhile since I posted you?

I wish you a Blessed Day!

991 posted on 08/09/2008 11:19:21 AM PDT by stfassisi ( ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi))
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