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To: annalex; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock; Alex Murphy; xzins; P-Marlowe; HarleyD; wmfights; Petronski; ...
John 10:26 means what it says: that some people, like the Apostles, respond to Christ with love and come to know His voice, like sheep come to know the shepherd, and others — with suspicion (”if you are the Christ, tell us plainly”), as sheep of a different shepherd. We have the same mechanisms at work today, when some people hear the Church and love her, and others curse at her.

WHAT? :) Here is the passage:

John 10:25-30 : 25 Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one."

Where do you see any of what you are saying in this whole passage? The way you describe it there are billions of sheep out there who wander around until they decide on a shepherd they like in whom to follow. Do you think THAT was the analogy Christ was making? Do sheep choose their shepherds? No, of course not, and the passage is clear about it. "[B]ut you do not believe because you are not my sheep." IOW, "I did not choose you to be my sheep. You were not given to me. That's why you do not recognize my voice and follow me."

And Christ never talks about anything gradual here, as opposed to what you were implying. Christ says flat out: "My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me." There is nothing about "coming to know His voice" or any other process over time. This is talking about salvation in absolute terms, not the "maybes and hopefullies" that are taught by the Church.

923 posted on 08/08/2008 6:03:30 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock; Alex Murphy; xzins; P-Marlowe; HarleyD; wmfights; ...
Do sheep choose their shepherds?

If you go by this parable alone, we are all sheep (which still makes us rather stubborn animals). But there are also verses that urge us to, for example, "take up the cross". Have you ever seen a sheep taking up a cross by itself? John 10 is the scripture that illustrates the security of our election; it is not a scripture that teaches anything, pro or contra, about free will.

937 posted on 08/08/2008 11:23:45 PM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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