Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: annalex; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock; Alex Murphy; xzins; P-Marlowe; HarleyD; wmfights
Again, being Catholic I read what is written in the scripture and believe it; you speculate and come out with God being according to you, either a failure or a liar.

Then you should be able to explain those scriptures which absolutely make God out to be a failure or a liar under Catholic beliefs. He is neither under our beliefs according to scripture, and I have explained how.

The quotes about predestination do not disprove divine love for the reprobate.

They DO disprove God's love for them concerning salvation. It is plain. Sure, He loves them by giving rain and sunshine, etc., but that is not the same.

That God knows our will before we ourselves do, and even before we are born does not limit His love to the elect only.

For salvation it sure DOES because He creates them anyway, knowing they will spend eternity in hell. He creates His elect knowing they will spend eternity with Him in Heaven. If that doesn't signify a difference in love on that subject, given that God is all powerful, then God necessarily loves no one.

Hebrews 12:8 says the exact opposite: "chastisement whereof all are made partakers". The reprobates do not respond to chastisement, but they surely receive it. "See that you refuse him not that speaketh" (v. 25) makes it very clear that it is the reprobate who refuses grace, not God who does not give it.

So am I to understand that the Great Commission was written ONLY for the Apostles, and of course their imaginary successors, but that Heb. 12:8 is written to all people, everywhere, who have ever lived since? The Bible is clear that some are sons and some are not (John 1:12). Verse 8 says that those who are not disciplined are not true sons. Therefore, the reprobate are not disciplined in the Christian sense. They are punished, but not with the expectation of recovery that the author of Hebrews is talking about. God wiping out whole cities in the OT is not the discipline that is being discussed in this passage. There is no reasonable interpretation that the corporate "you" in this passage has anything to do with the reprobate.

FK: WHY it is that some choose the good over the evil.

Because some respond to the snares of the Devil, of course. "The woman saw that the tree was good to eat, and fair to the eyes, and delightful to behold: and she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave to her husband who did eat" (Gen 3:6). Did God not love her? Funny god you have.

God loves Eve if she is in Heaven today, but your response doesn't answer the "why" of it. Are these people less smart, less loving, etc. and what or Who made them that way? Some were not brought up in loving homes, and such, so do you think environment plays a big role on one's eternal destiny? That would go toward the "why". Remember I am not the first to ask this:

1 Cor 4:7 : For who makes you different from anyone else? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not?

I am asking how Catholicism reconciles this. Doesn't this suggest to you that God gave something to the elect that He did not give to the reprobate?

879 posted on 08/07/2008 4:20:00 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 877 | View Replies ]


To: Forest Keeper; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock; Alex Murphy; xzins; P-Marlowe; HarleyD; wmfights

You presume the absence of free will, then with that presumption firmly in mind ask me to explain Catholicism to you. Get rid of that silly and unscriptural idea, and every scripture will become crystal clear.

Here’s the explanation: men can accept or resist grace according to their free will. To accept grace is to love God. To resist grace is not to love Him. God’s love is unconditional and extends to the reprobates (those who don’t love God back). The reasons they are reprobates is the original sin which left them with inflated pride, weak will and darkened intellect; hence they fall prey to Satan.

God knows His elect and His reprobates. He cannot “fix” the reprobates because love by definition has to come from the free will. For God to save a reprobate against the reprobate’s will is as impossible as it is impossible for Him to lie, or fail, or not love.

What God can do is give opportunities for the free will to turn the right way. Those are in the form of the Sacraments of His Church that transmit the saving grace, the revelation of God in Christ, and the chastisement of suffering that everyone receives, but not everyone can use to grow closer to Christ.

It is very simple.


880 posted on 08/07/2008 5:19:25 PM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 879 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson