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To: Celtman
One issue I did not address earlier on this thread is the usage of "the Catholic Church". So many in the Protestant persuasion fool themselves into thinking that the "Catholic" of the creed (credo unam sanctam catholicam apostolicam ecclesiam) is somehow a reference to all baptized Christians, that this a bit lengthy citation from the fathers should be helpful. This is the first known to us use of the word "catholic", late 1c or early 2c. Note that the context excludes at least all Evangelical Christians, and arguably the entire product of the Reformation.

Chapter 6. Unbelievers in the blood of Christ shall be condemned

Let no man deceive himself. Both the things which are in heaven, and the glorious angels, and rulers, both visible and invisible, if they believe not in the blood of Christ, shall, in consequence, incur condemnation. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it. Matthew 19:12 Let not [high] place puff any one up: for that which is worth all is faith and love, to which nothing is to be preferred. But consider those who are of a different opinion with respect to the grace of Christ which has come unto us, how opposed they are to the will of God. They have no regard for love; no care for the widow, or the orphan, or the oppressed; of the bond, or of the free; of the hungry, or of the thirsty.

Chapter 7. Let us stand aloof from such heretics

They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again. Those, therefore, who speak against this gift of God, incur death in the midst of their disputes. But it were better for them to treat it with respect, that they also might rise again. It is fitting, therefore, that you should keep aloof from such persons, and not to speak of them either in private or in public, but to give heed to the prophets, and above all, to the Gospel, in which the passion [of Christ] has been revealed to us, and the resurrection has been fully proved. But avoid all divisions, as the beginning of evils.

Chapter 8. Let nothing be done without the bishop

See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid.

Chapter 9. Honour the bishop

Moreover, it is in accordance with reason that we should return to soberness [of conduct], and, while yet we have opportunity, exercise repentance towards God. It is well to reverence both God and the bishop. He who honours the bishop has been honoured by God; he who does anything without the knowledge of the bishop, does [in reality] serve the devil. Let all things, then, abound to you through grace, for you are worthy. You have refreshed me in all things, and Jesus Christ [shall refresh] you. You have loved me when absent as well as when present. May God recompense you, for whose sake, while you endure all things, you shall attain unto Him.

The Epistle of Ignatius to the Smyrnaeans


299 posted on 08/01/2008 1:54:53 PM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: annalex
The Epistle of Ignatius to the Smyrnaeans

That is not a part of the gospel of Christ and thusly is merely the meanderings of man stating what he thinks. It is not bindable on anyone.

340 posted on 08/01/2008 5:33:31 PM PDT by Truth Defender (History teaches, if we but listen to it; but no one really listens!)
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To: annalex
The catholic or universal church, which (with respect to the internal work of the Spirit and truth of grace) may be called invisible, consists of the whole number of the elect, that have been, are, or shall be gathered into one, under Christ, the head thereof; and is the spouse, the body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
1789 London Confession

The Roman Church has its authorities, and Bible Christians have our authorities.  The writings of Ignatius of Antioch are not Biblicly authoritative.

383 posted on 08/01/2008 8:10:06 PM PDT by Celtman (It's never right to do wrong to do right.)
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