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To: annalex; Forest Keeper; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock
Of course Christ chose first, but loving Christ back is a process of sanctification, and not a heart transplant (if the rape metaphor irks you).

If he chose everyone equally, then it was not a "choice". If Christ chose you, then he didn't choose someone else. And if you chose him because he first chose you, then your "free will" had nothing to do with it. If you chose Christ it is because he changed YOUR will. And if he can CHANGE YOUR WILL, then you don't have the "FREE WILL" to choose God. In fact the whole of scripture shows that man does not have the Free Will to choose God and that man will only Choose God if God changes their will and makes them willing.

Since God does not give everyone the will to choose him, then it is pretty obvious that if you are saved it is wholly and totally the work of God and that your free will had nothing to do with it.

Apparently you seem to equate God's unconditional love and irresistible grace as some kind of RAPE. If you hate God in your heart, and God, without any regard for your so-called "free will" removes that hateful heart and replaces it with a heart that has a yearning for him, is that RAPE?

1,005 posted on 08/09/2008 12:15:52 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: P-Marlowe; Forest Keeper; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock
If Christ chose you, then he didn't choose someone else.

Why? Is there a quota?

Christ knows His elect because He knows that they will Choose Him before they do. It is a process whereby Christ foreknows but man grows in Christ as a free-willed creature. Or he doesn't grow. But, in the latter case, it doesn't mean Christ did not call him or didn't love him.

1,014 posted on 08/09/2008 4:03:30 PM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: P-Marlowe
Apparently you seem to equate God's unconditional love and irresistible grace as some kind of RAPE. If you hate God in your heart, and God, without any regard for your so-called "free will" removes that hateful heart and replaces it with a heart that has a yearning for him, is that RAPE?

This confuses the mind with the heart and the role of volition.

1,018 posted on 08/09/2008 4:45:48 PM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: P-Marlowe; Forest Keeper; Gamecock; enat; Alex Murphy; HarleyD; wmfights; Marysecretary; ...
If he chose everyone equally, then it was not a "choice". If Christ chose you, then he didn't choose someone else. And if you chose him because he first chose you, then your "free will" had nothing to do with it. If you chose Christ it is because he changed YOUR will. And if he can CHANGE YOUR WILL, then you don't have the "FREE WILL" to choose God. In fact the whole of scripture shows that man does not have the Free Will to choose God and that man will only Choose God if God changes their will and makes them willing.

Since God does not give everyone the will to choose him, then it is pretty obvious that if you are saved it is wholly and totally the work of God and that your free will had nothing to do with it.

AMEN! That comment made my day. 8~)

And according to your comment, would you say you are "happier" now than when and if you ever believed in your own free will choice to believe in Christ?

Would you say you are more confident in your faith now that you believe God is wholly responsible for your ability to understand the Scriptures and believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior?

And if you are happier and more confident now, don't you sometimes wonder why all Christians do not embrace these glorious facts of God's sovereign, eternal, predestining, all-encompassing, transformative love for those who are His?

Isn't it sad and a bit strange that even some Christians stand alongside the unbelieving world to deny these truths?

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved." -- Ephesians 1:3-6


1,026 posted on 08/09/2008 5:34:53 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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