“A statue of a saint would be an idol if that statue were worshiped. A person bowing down to Mary is worshiping no one but her Son.” [excerpt, emphasis mine]
Is bowing down to a statue of Mary still worshiping her Son?
Posted on 07/29/2008 4:39:52 PM PDT by annalex
Dumb as Spurgeon generally is as regards figuring out the scripture, he did not deny that “the true minister of God” is given the power to forgive sin in John 20.
“A statue of a saint would be an idol if that statue were worshiped. A person bowing down to Mary is worshiping no one but her Son.” [excerpt, emphasis mine]
It's too bad the Holy Spirit doesn't love all believers equally in Catholicism. Notice the difference in that we would say Holy Spirit DOES love and lead you personally, even though you are a Catholic. However, your particular assembly (I'm trying to emulate the Pope here :) holds that Holy Spirit only leads your Magisterium on important matters. That's the elitism that Paul spoke against:
1 Cor 1:13-15 : 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into the name of Paul? 14 I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so no one can say that you were baptized into my name.
When Paul saw the glorification of men coming, he struck it down and refused to participate. How things have changed. Elitism divides God's Church. You speak of "disarray among Protestants", but there is none among Bible-believing Christians. Of course I have minor differences with other Protestant posters of different denominations, but it is the simplest thing for us to unite as one against the error and elitism we see in modern day Catholicism. You know that the Reformers you see all the time around here come from different churches, but you also know that we speak virtually with one voice on the vast majority of issues. There is no way you can tell me that the various Catholics on these threads are any more consistent with each other than the Reformers who you know.
“Dumb as Spurgeon generally is as regards figuring out the scripture, he did not deny that “the true minister of God” is given the power to forgive sin in John 20.”If your going to say someone said something, please include the full quote of what they said.
Of course.
Do you understand how the secularist views the monastic? With total indifference. It doesn’t matter a bit to them.
The Holy Spirit loves all, including the reprobates, but the promise to lead to the truth is given the Apostles, and a more specific promise to St. Peter. If you think that is an unfair state of affairs, your problem is with the evangelists if not with Christ Himself.
Logically, the leadership of the Holy Ghost cannot be with all Christians at all times, because they cannot all be right all the time.
I don’t care what Spurgeon says one bit, but the quote you gave does not contradict what the Church teaches about John 20, that her priests acting in communion with the bishop can forgive or retain sins. Of course, when they do, that is Christ who forgives or retains at the same time.
And likewise the monks normally ignore the secular world. That does not alter the fact that monasticism is an example of people who live in complete absence of government and in peace.
Impossible...even if it is just the basic services, monastics live under some government regulation and protection somewhere, somehow.
“I don’t care what Spurgeon says one bit, but the quote you gave does not contradict what the Church teaches about John 20, that her priests acting in communion with the bishop can forgive or retain sins. Of course, when they do, that is Christ who forgives or retains at the same time.” [emphasis mine]There is a difference between the church forgiving sins and a true minister of God telling a repentant sinner that with the remission of their sins comes forgiveness from God.
Nonsense. I have studied the inquisition. I do not consider torture to be a good interrogation technique. I do not consider "guilty until proven innocent" to be the best model. And I do not consider ANY "heresy" to be a capital offense.
Since the early Church, the monks lived in a self-sufficient way, and often not only in absence of government services, but under hostile governments. There are monastries in the desert of Egypt, for example, that survive since 5c, most of that time under Islam.
Te gospel says that the Apostles are to decide which sin is retained and which is absolved. If Spurgeon did not get that, well, he did not get very many things that are in the scripture as well.
And to the secular world, they don't exist....they are non-entities. Thus, they have no impact...and disprove your point.
Torture was considered a reliable interrogation technique, provided that confession was repeated in absence of torture. Whether the modern man agrees or disagrees, is not relevant when passing judgement on those who operated based on the knowledge of jurisprudence they had.
Guilty till proven innocent was decidedly not the inquisitorial standard. In fact, the use of torture stems from the fact that the Inquisition did not consider circumstantial evidence admissible at all, and restricted itself to proof of guilt by direct eyewitness or confession.
The Inquistion did not consider any offense capital; people guilty of heresy were executed by the state if the state had laws against it, and the Inquisition was just as likely to plead for clemency.
Generally, the Inquisitorial court has stricter procedure, resorted to torture less than the king’s courts, and insisted on providing the accused with an attorney. They really pioneered the concepts of the rights of the accused.
Certainly, abuses occurred, but these are the general rules.
If you studied the Inquisition you would know that.
Sure they exist. I just read a book written by someone visiting them.
“T[h]e gospel says that the Apostles are to decide which sin is retained and which is absolved. If Spurgeon did not get that, well, he did not get very many things that are in the scripture as well.”Any time you say "The gospel says" you should follow with the verse where it says what your saying it says.
John 20, in my post #816 to you.
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