Posted on 07/29/2008 4:39:52 PM PDT by annalex
Evangelicals have been going through a major change of heart in their view of Catholicism over the past 15 years or so. In the 80’s when I was in college I lived in the Biblebelt and had plenty of experience with Evangelicals–much of it bad experience. The 80’s was the height of the “Are you saved?” question. In Virginia, the question often popped up in the first 10 minutes of getting to know someone. As I look back, Isurmise that this was coached from the pulpit or Sunday school as it was so well coordinated and almost universally applied. It was a good tactic for putting Catholics on the defensive even before it was known that they were Catholic—”ummmm, uhhh, well no, I’m not sure, I’m Catholic.” Then a conversation about works righteousness or saint statues would ensue. Yeah, nice to meet you, too.
Thankfully, those days are pretty much over. We now have formerly rabid anti-Catholics apologizing and even praising the pope. Catholics and Evangelicals have both learned that we have much in common and need each other to face the secular culture with a solid front. But, where did this detente come from? I think there is a real history to be told here and a book should be written. Let me give my perceptions of 7 major developments since 1993, which I regard as the the watershed year for the renewal of the Catholic Church in the United States.
1. The Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1993. When this document came out, it was uncertain that even Catholics would read it. We should have known that something was up when the French version hit the top of the bestsellers charts in France and stayed there for months. The English version did the same in the US. Catholics were reading the Catechism, forming study groups and challenging errant professors in the classroom.
2. World Youth Day, Denver 1993. Catholic youth and youth ministers woke up. Suddenly, Catholic youth ministers realized that the youth loved the pope. And they loved him all the more because he did not talk down to them or water down the faith. He challenged them. Gone now were the pizza and a video parish youth nights. Furthermore, youth and young adults took up the challenge to evangelize. One of those youth heard the message and started a website, New Advent. Catholic youth were now becoming zealous for the Catholic faith in its fullness and were not going to be swayed by an awkward conversation that began with “Are you saved?”
3. Scott Hahn. While the Catechism is great for expounding the Catholic faith, it is not a work of apologetics itself. It is not written to expose the flaws of Evangelical theology. It is not written to defend the Church against the attacks of Evangelicals per se. It just would not let them get away with misrepresenting the Catholic faith. But Scott Hahn hit the scene at about the same time with Rome Sweet Home: Our Journey to Catholicism (Ignatius Press: San Francisco, 1993). I first heard his testimony on cassette tape in 1996. It blew my mind. Suddenly, Catholic apologetics, which is as old as the Catholic Church itself, got a leg up and there was an explosion of books, magazines and websites that effectively undercut the arguments of the 5 Solas. For the first time, there was a cadre of Catholics well enough informed to defend their faith.
4. The Internet. The Net started exploding from 1993 to 1996. I had my first account in ‘94. Compuserve was horribly basic, but by ‘96 I had AOL and the religion debates raged instantly. Catholics who had just been given the most powerful weapon in the arsenal in the war against misinterpretation of their teaching were learning to type on a forum while balancing their catechisms on their laps. Of course, online versions came out, as well. But, no Evangelical bent on getting Catholics out of the arms of the Whore of Babylon could expect to do so without himself have a copy of the Catechism, knowing it inside out and pouring over it for the errors and horrors he would surely find. Evangelical apologists were confronted with a coherent and beautiful presentation of the Catholic faith that they were ill equipped to argue against. They learned that Catholics, too, loved Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. The Catechism had arrived providentially just before the internet and had turned the tables in just a few short years. With the apologetic movement hitting at the same time, Evangelicals were also confronted with Catholics who could argue from the Bible defending their faith and demonstrating the weaknesses of Evangelical interpretations of scripture.
5. Early Church Fathers. One fruit of the Apologetics movement has been a flowering anew of Catholic interest in Patristics. This is happening at every level from armchair apologists to doctoral studies. It is suddenly all about Patristics, whereas in the 70’s-90’s the academic focus had been on Karl Rahner and Liberation Theology.
6. Evangelical Third World Experience. Evangelicals have had a field day in Latin America among the poor who are not part of the internet conversation and are distant from the study of apologetics. But, Evangelicals have learned from their experiences abroad an essential aspect of the Gospel they were missing: the Works of Mercy. Once haughty with their criticism of “works righteousness,” they have learned one cannot attend to the spiritual needs of the poor without attending to their bodily needs. Catholic have always understood this. Now, the Evangelicals are coming around. I haven’t heard an Evangelical Televangelist speak on works righteousness in many years.
7. Secularism. With the collapse of the Mainline churches as the backbone of American religion over the past thirty years (since about 1975), Catholics and Evangelicals are the only ones left standing in this country to present the Gospel. Secularism is on the rise and is ruthless. Evangelicals are now learning that only Catholicism has the intellectual resources to combat the present secular age. And, with the pope, we have a pretty effective means for communicating the faith and representing it to the world. There is nothing an Evangelical can do that will match the power of one World Youth Day.
With such an array of Providential developments, Evangelicals as well as Catholics have come to appreciate the depth and the breadth of the Catholic faith. It is far more difficult for them to honestly dismiss Catholicism as the work of Satan as once they did without qualm. There have been apologies and there have been calls for a new partnership. Let us hope these developments will bring about a new moment of understanding for the Glory of the Lord.
There is no pretense: Christ also said, “I send you like my Father send me” and “whoever hears you hears me”. That relationship of sacramental agency is what “alter Christus” so economically signifies.
Every Mass is that singular offering at Golgotha, rather than a separate offering, just like Hebrews 10 teaches.
Pelagian error would be to say that Mary received her distinctions through her own work rather than through salvific work of Christ. In order to firgure out what the Church teaches it is sufficient to read the catechism or ask someone, before venturing into independent cogitations, “doctor”.
Vincent of Lerins considered it heresy here, in the 3rd paragraph.
What was once heresy is now dogma in the Roman Catholic Church.
"unfortunate events"
Riiiiiigggggggggghhhhhhhhhhht! . . . Kind of like all that bloody ugly torturous Inquisition stuff was more or less equal to . . . some other unfortunate events in life . . .
1. . . . like stubbing one's toe . . .
2. having a minor fender bender in an icy parking lot at WalMart . . .
3. eating one too many hyper spicy tacos . . .
4. locking one's keys in one's car at the mall.
5. getting more than one or two mosquito bites in an evening.
6. starting to mow the lawn and suddenly sneezingly realizing that one didn't take the allergy meds an hour ago as needed.
7. Realizing 15 minutes before the dinner party that the ice in the ice maker is stale and slightly off tasting.
8. Sitting down to check FREEPMAIL only to have FR crash.
Yeah, we prottys understand quite well . . . that
When some rabid RC's are slightly annoyed in their tender sensibilities--that it's the end of the world or at least that the end is shockingly in sight, or in smell or in wail or some such.
But when RC's horrifically torture to death children and wife in front of a Protty to get him to deny Christ--it's just an unfortunate event.
Yeah, We GET IT quite well. RC's are human and Prottys are significantly less than . . . at least less than something useful or tolerable or wonderful. We understand.
What do they have to do with the purported inerrancy of the political power-mongering magicsterical driven authoritarians meeting in committee running the massive edifice that is the Roman Catholic Church?
You mean, other than that rabid RC's hereon have claimed that the edifice has been homogeneous, flawless in all it's teachings, rituals, ceremonies, RELIGIOUS decisions, dogmas and doctrines since before dirt was formed . . . regardless of how opposite to authentic historical facts such fantasies really were?
We are mearly the latest to find out that you can not mock God and survive. We have turned our face from God, and have made a travesty of much that He gave this nation. We got to proud in our own selves, and have forgotten God.
Much like Christian Rome, we have returned to the pagan practices of old. Much like Christian France, we have flocked to men who tell us what our itching ears want to hear. Much like Christian Russia, we have trusted to much in our position as a bastion. Rome was destroyed by the barbarians, France by the Revolution, and Russia by the Communists. But a remnant remained.
I fear that we as a nation are about to be spit out. I am not worried about the Church, Christianity thrives in such times, but I fear for our nation. This new cult of selfishness and earth worship will end up destroying what is left of the West.
It’s at this point that one realizes that
the matrix or alternate reality or distant galaxy or whatever it is or wherever it is that
SOME RC’s seem to dwell, inhabit, breathe and have their being . . .
is decidedly different than the places where 1 + 1 still equals 2 . . .
where the sun still sets in the West . . .
Where summer still follows spring and precedes fall . . .
Where the sky is up and the tree roots grow down.
How do folks face their mirrors when spouting such outrageously illogical hogwash? Is there some sort of brain implant that occurs at RC confirmations in some congregations where the logic circuits are obliterated or greatly diminished? It’s mind bogglingly puzzling.
Hello?
And if anyone thinks that POLITICAL PLUS INSECURITY, GREEDY, ARROGANT DRIVEN POWER-MONGERING, GRAND STANDING, TURF BUILDING AND DEFENDING . . .
results in purity of theological thought and teaching . . .
Then, I think there is no longer any rational discourse possible. The whole sheebang jumped off a very deep cliff a long time ago.
Mind boggling. About the time one thinks one has heard it all from the rabid RC's and they spring another Alice in Wonderland School of Theology pseudo pretend fact.
INDEED.
However, never fear, they have more than enough rubber to stretch over all the holes, rot, fallen fantasies etc.
INDEED! INDEED. That is exceedingly true.
I agree with you 100%. I KNOW we are heading for judgement and it’s not gooing to be pretty. But He also says that if we pray and turn from our wicked ways, He will heal our land. It CAN be done. I just don’t know myself if it’s too late. M
...and it’s the second wave of deceiving harpsters coming to infect a thread entitled, “Evangelicals: Change of Heart toward Catholics”.
But then again, most aren’t Evangelicals. Still they persist. “You will know them....”
Man, I’ve been thinking many similar thoughts the last few years. We are on the same page.
INDEED! INDEED. That is exceedingly true.
But that is not what we find being preached by those glorifying the RCC. It is the church they preach, and/or the glorification of the "supreme Pontiff". Without the Scriptures they have no "tradition", and without tradition they say they have no "scriptures"...what a circle of confusion. I wonder what would happen if all RC's would just start preaching was is taught in the Bible and quit trying to convert people to a religious organization?
I agree rather wholesale.
Thanks.
Yes, you will know them by their fruit.
Excellent post. I agree completely.
I would add that seeing that our children are not safe in their mothers’ wombs, it is amazing that we, lucky enough to survive past birth, feel any measure of safety at all.
You are wasting the bandwidth, dear.
Very true.
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