Posted on 07/29/2008 4:39:52 PM PDT by annalex
Evangelicals have been going through a major change of heart in their view of Catholicism over the past 15 years or so. In the 80’s when I was in college I lived in the Biblebelt and had plenty of experience with Evangelicals–much of it bad experience. The 80’s was the height of the “Are you saved?” question. In Virginia, the question often popped up in the first 10 minutes of getting to know someone. As I look back, Isurmise that this was coached from the pulpit or Sunday school as it was so well coordinated and almost universally applied. It was a good tactic for putting Catholics on the defensive even before it was known that they were Catholic—”ummmm, uhhh, well no, I’m not sure, I’m Catholic.” Then a conversation about works righteousness or saint statues would ensue. Yeah, nice to meet you, too.
Thankfully, those days are pretty much over. We now have formerly rabid anti-Catholics apologizing and even praising the pope. Catholics and Evangelicals have both learned that we have much in common and need each other to face the secular culture with a solid front. But, where did this detente come from? I think there is a real history to be told here and a book should be written. Let me give my perceptions of 7 major developments since 1993, which I regard as the the watershed year for the renewal of the Catholic Church in the United States.
1. The Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1993. When this document came out, it was uncertain that even Catholics would read it. We should have known that something was up when the French version hit the top of the bestsellers charts in France and stayed there for months. The English version did the same in the US. Catholics were reading the Catechism, forming study groups and challenging errant professors in the classroom.
2. World Youth Day, Denver 1993. Catholic youth and youth ministers woke up. Suddenly, Catholic youth ministers realized that the youth loved the pope. And they loved him all the more because he did not talk down to them or water down the faith. He challenged them. Gone now were the pizza and a video parish youth nights. Furthermore, youth and young adults took up the challenge to evangelize. One of those youth heard the message and started a website, New Advent. Catholic youth were now becoming zealous for the Catholic faith in its fullness and were not going to be swayed by an awkward conversation that began with “Are you saved?”
3. Scott Hahn. While the Catechism is great for expounding the Catholic faith, it is not a work of apologetics itself. It is not written to expose the flaws of Evangelical theology. It is not written to defend the Church against the attacks of Evangelicals per se. It just would not let them get away with misrepresenting the Catholic faith. But Scott Hahn hit the scene at about the same time with Rome Sweet Home: Our Journey to Catholicism (Ignatius Press: San Francisco, 1993). I first heard his testimony on cassette tape in 1996. It blew my mind. Suddenly, Catholic apologetics, which is as old as the Catholic Church itself, got a leg up and there was an explosion of books, magazines and websites that effectively undercut the arguments of the 5 Solas. For the first time, there was a cadre of Catholics well enough informed to defend their faith.
4. The Internet. The Net started exploding from 1993 to 1996. I had my first account in ‘94. Compuserve was horribly basic, but by ‘96 I had AOL and the religion debates raged instantly. Catholics who had just been given the most powerful weapon in the arsenal in the war against misinterpretation of their teaching were learning to type on a forum while balancing their catechisms on their laps. Of course, online versions came out, as well. But, no Evangelical bent on getting Catholics out of the arms of the Whore of Babylon could expect to do so without himself have a copy of the Catechism, knowing it inside out and pouring over it for the errors and horrors he would surely find. Evangelical apologists were confronted with a coherent and beautiful presentation of the Catholic faith that they were ill equipped to argue against. They learned that Catholics, too, loved Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. The Catechism had arrived providentially just before the internet and had turned the tables in just a few short years. With the apologetic movement hitting at the same time, Evangelicals were also confronted with Catholics who could argue from the Bible defending their faith and demonstrating the weaknesses of Evangelical interpretations of scripture.
5. Early Church Fathers. One fruit of the Apologetics movement has been a flowering anew of Catholic interest in Patristics. This is happening at every level from armchair apologists to doctoral studies. It is suddenly all about Patristics, whereas in the 70’s-90’s the academic focus had been on Karl Rahner and Liberation Theology.
6. Evangelical Third World Experience. Evangelicals have had a field day in Latin America among the poor who are not part of the internet conversation and are distant from the study of apologetics. But, Evangelicals have learned from their experiences abroad an essential aspect of the Gospel they were missing: the Works of Mercy. Once haughty with their criticism of “works righteousness,” they have learned one cannot attend to the spiritual needs of the poor without attending to their bodily needs. Catholic have always understood this. Now, the Evangelicals are coming around. I haven’t heard an Evangelical Televangelist speak on works righteousness in many years.
7. Secularism. With the collapse of the Mainline churches as the backbone of American religion over the past thirty years (since about 1975), Catholics and Evangelicals are the only ones left standing in this country to present the Gospel. Secularism is on the rise and is ruthless. Evangelicals are now learning that only Catholicism has the intellectual resources to combat the present secular age. And, with the pope, we have a pretty effective means for communicating the faith and representing it to the world. There is nothing an Evangelical can do that will match the power of one World Youth Day.
With such an array of Providential developments, Evangelicals as well as Catholics have come to appreciate the depth and the breadth of the Catholic faith. It is far more difficult for them to honestly dismiss Catholicism as the work of Satan as once they did without qualm. There have been apologies and there have been calls for a new partnership. Let us hope these developments will bring about a new moment of understanding for the Glory of the Lord.
If people think I'm wrong I just ask that they show me why.
I have already amply demonstrated how wrong you are about that, yet you persist.
Why do you say that it doesn't matter to Him?
Just logic. I suppose that if in Catholicism God gives the same saving grace to all men, such that all men have an equal chance to be saved from God's POV, AND, that God will not interfere with any man's decision whether to accept Him, THEN it must be true that it does not matter to God which particular individuals come to Him, if even any do. If God is unwilling to interfere, even though He "nudges", then presumably if no one at all accepted Him, the reaction of God would be "Oh well". :) To me that is a very impersonal idea of God.
Do you not know that Christ died even for the sake of salvation for those who killed Him? "Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do."
Sure, but this love that Christ showed here is comparatively shallow in Catholicism because not a single person ever made it to Heaven just because He did that. IOW, in Catholicism Christ saved no one, even though the Bible says: "Matt 1:21 : She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins." As I understand it, you all believe that Christ only paid for the sins of a person before baptism (including original sin). After that, we are on our own to pay for our sins.
Theologically, to me this position greatly lessens the gravity of sin itself because it supposes that a man CAN pay for his own sins, when in fact he cannot. Further, it makes Christ's sacrifice worth ...... less because the worth of the sacrifice is certainly enough to in fact pay for all sins of all time.
How sad is that? It’s ALL about a personal relationship. Some may be content with religion, but God isn’t. He longs for a true relationship with His children, just like any daddy does. He wants to listen to us and to talk to us as well. He loves our worship and adoration, just as any parent would. I think that’s the part about ‘religion’ that I really dislike. It promotes man’s reaching God, not God reaching man through a relationship with Him. Sad indeed.
No, He does not design anyone not to respond. The design is always to respond to the call, but the free will is a part of the design.
If the design is just a general one and doesn't attach to anyone in particular, then that goes directly to my assertion that in Catholicism it doesn't matter to God which individual people come to Him, if any do. Your statement appears to support that position.
The reprobates choose to be reprobates.
On that we can agree.
The church has no power to save. Only God has that power and privilege.
Amen, John.
Yes, and nothing will prevail against the true church, the entire Body of Christ, believers in His Son.
Amen, dear Dr. E. The gates of hell will not prevail against the ONE true church, the Body of Christ international. US!
A wonderful post, John Leland! I wish all could really see and believe what you have written.
Sorry, annalex. The body of Christ is the one true church and has little or nothing to do with Catholicism. Catholics who know Christ as saviour are included in the one true church, of course. We believers are all counted as the one true church. Has zilch to do with any denomination.
AMEN! And as always, thanks for the great scriptures! :)
“He chooses us.” I have OFTEN lately wondered why I was the only one in my entire family to chase after God. I was the only one who continually went to church (albeit perhaps because I could sing and wanted to be in their choirs and sing solos, etc.). My brothers never did and as far as I know, neither have received Christ (one has died). My sister eventually came to know Him but not in the way I do, intimately. Hmm. He chose me for some reason. Maybe some day I’ll figure it out, LOL.
Exactly right. One cannot accept Christ on behalf of another. Each person has to do that for him/herself because it’s a choice we make. Nobody can choose that for us.
Exactly right. One cannot accept Christ on behalf of another. Each person has to do that for him/herself because it’s a choice we make. Nobody can choose that for us.
NO, Petronski, it is NOT irrelevant. John Leland is absolutely right. Nobody can choose Christ for another person. When that child grows up to understand, then he or she can make that choice. Nobody else can do it.
Arrogance is unattractive. John is right.
Bzzzt. Wrong.
It happens all the time in the Church founded by Christ, the Catholic Church.
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