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To: DaveMSmith

“Matt 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.”

“Note that salvation is at the end of the process. Again, some years may pass and the regeneration process lasts to eternity — it’s not a ‘one time deal’.”

What you profess is an example of cultic exegesis. You have taken a statement in the gospels and then interpreted them inconsistent with the whole of the New Testament. Nowhere do we see that regeneration - that being conversion and the possession of the Holy Spirit - takes a lifetime for anyone to receive. It make take that long for some to come to Christ, and the effects of regeneration are progressive.

I do not doubt that men can receive a “2nd work of grace” such as holy men as D. L. Moody or Duncan Campell testified of (and i yet seek), and which perhaps is what Eph. 3:14-21 is speaking of (may all that is within me cry glory), but the only manifestation of a “Baptism by Fire” is that of Acts 2:1-3, which Holy Spirit reception is then promised to those who confess the Lord Jesus by baptism in his name (Acts 2:38), and which same baptism Cornelius and household received in Acts 10 (cf. Acts 15:7-9).

“We understand “belief” as:”

Who is “we”? Yes, belief must not be superficial, but the cry of a broken heart an contrite spirit, which God promises to save. But you ignored the sample of Scriptures that i supplied and to which more can given, that show the reception of the Spirit is instantaneous, and comes as conversion. And as pointed out before, if the reception/possession of the Holy Spirit is not the same thing as conversion, but is a result of ongoing unregenerate dying to self, then souls such as the Corinthians could not have bodies that were the temple of the Hoy Ghost. Nor could the backsliding Galatians. We may possess the Hoy Spirit without allowing Him to fully “possess” us. Thereby limiting the Holy One of Israel (Ps. 78:41).


156 posted on 07/10/2008 8:33:41 AM PDT by daniel1212 ( Give your sins and life to Him who died your us and rose again. Jesus is Lord.)
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To: daniel1212
Well, I do see many here, if fact, deny keeping the commandments is part of belief or faith. I believe “As soon as a person rejects evils as sins, the Lord can flow in from Heaven, open his spiritual mind, and introduce him into Heaven. ”.

Belief without action is nothing. One we amend our lives, then the Holy Spirit may flow in and assist us. If that's what you mean by 'at conversion', then we're in agreement

But in today's world, I don't see it that often. If you are talking about practicing Jews who converted and were already keeping the commandments, sure. But here, we're talking about a faith only belief where the commandments aren't practiced because it's "impossible".

Not sure what you mean with "cultic exegesis". My beliefs are practical and make common sense. The doctrine is derived directly from the Word.

157 posted on 07/10/2008 8:56:17 AM PDT by DaveMSmith (If you know these things, you are blessed if you act upon them. John 13:17)
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