Posted on 07/07/2008 10:49:08 PM PDT by Gamecock
What did Jesus teach was the work that God required to be Saved, when the Pharisees asked Him what must man do to have eternal life? What did Jesus teach Nicodemus in John 3 when Nic came asking questions?
It is meant for instruction and love towards the neighbor. In a deeper sense, it is meant reformation and regeneration by the Lord.
The answer is no. Do you prefer to worship on the Pagan day of the Sun instead ? Do I understand the Jesuitical parsing correctly ?
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach Adonai
My church has worship services on Sunday. I'm a contemplative Christian who practices centering and receptive prayer.
We believe there are 2 forms of worship, internal and external. Internal worship means living a pious an holy life -- every day. I practice external worship online, which my church offers.
Not sure I understand 'Jesuitical parsing' as I'm not Catholic.
God planned works for us from the foundation of the world. I believe that there are works that only you or I can do to promote the Kingdom of Heaven here on earth. If we refuse His call to do those particular works, we will be judged on that. That’s why we always have to pray and ask God to show us where He wants us to go and what we’re to do. He’s given us giftings that can point the way as well. It’s important to do those works, but without faith we really can’t.
AMEN, Iscool. Why is that so hard to understand?
I’ve said that before, that God will always pursue you when you are saved, but it’s a concept that’s laughed at by some. Glad to see it here...
Protestantism isn’t evil, dangus. Sorry you feel that way. Glad God doesn’t!
Exactly...
Well that’s true Mary, but I still contend (backed up by the scriptures) that our Salvation and Faith is based upon Christ and His Grace ALONE, not our works, they only come about (as important as they are) because of our Faith firstly..!
I agree, absolutely. Without our faith in Christ, our works mean nothing. But He knew who would receive Him and He has prepared those works for His children who follow Him.
I'm not interested in the Tree of Life...My name is already written in the Book of Life...
Best look at the next verse:
Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
"Eating from the tree of life symbolizes acquisition of eternal life, and eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil symbolizes acquisition of damnation." CL 135
It's a curious thing. God our Father loves us. He's always made that clear. Once we chose to step inside his door we a forever his even if we decide to go back outside and play.
It's not about good works, bad works or no works, it's about him bridging the chasm of sin so there is no more separtion between us.
Once you accept his gift it's yours forever and you can't give back, throw it away, rewrap and give it to someone else, you have to decide how you're going to live WITH it!
Thanks for noticing we have a great, gracious, and loving God.
Why did you ping me?
What did Jesus tell the rich young man he had to do in order to be saved? Oh, right: Go and give all you own to the poor. What did John tell the people they had to do? Oh, right: Repent.
The dispute between Catholics and Calvinists over sola fides isn’t over whether faith is salvific. Of course it is. The argument is over whether faith can be salvific without works. And the Catholic position is that salvific faith inherently is accompanied by works. Faith without works is like a triangle that doesn’t have three sides.
I believed you had been pinged already at #29.
I was responding to Zionist Conspirator’s inference that God raised up Protestantism “to give Catholics and Orthodox a taste of their own medicine.”
As for me, I think that the founding cause of Protestant churches is evil, that the division of the Christian church is evil, and that the constant pre-occupation with bashing Catholic doctrines (like this thread) is evil. But that the faith held by Protestants is frequently blessed and good, and frequently far more blessed and more good than the faith held by fallen away / Amchurch Catholics like Ted Kennedy or Nancy Pelosi.
Protestantism is impaired Christianity. That it is impaired is evil; that it is Christianity is blessed and good.
Ahmain.shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach Adonai
“Faith alone saves, but faith that is alone is not the genuine article. It’s not saving faith.”
This is clear in Scripture, and Reformers taught such. Sola Fide means that God-given faith appropriates justification by imputed righteousness (Rm. 3:9-5:1), but it is IMPOSSIBLE to Biblically believe on the Lord Jesus Christ without effectually confessing Him as such, as enabled. Faith, like love, causes responses corresponding to the desires and will of it’s object. What you really believe will be manifest in what you do. But the key distinction is that it is not by any merit of our works, which must includes even the heart assent of faith or “sinners prayer,” that we are justified by, but by imputed righteousness, appropriated by God-given faith. Thus it cannot be said that souls “by their very works sake.. have merited eternal life” (Trent), if that is to mean that by any merit of works themselves one is justified.
Paul (against the Jews) in Romans 4 and elsewhere deals with the very issue of upon what basis sinful man is justified, and states that God justifies a man by faith without requiring works as regards a means of merit. But elsewhere makes it clear such faith is a confessional one. James (against “easy believers”) specifically deals with what manner of faith is saving, and requires works as a condition of salvation. What i believe both are saying is that God only imputes righteousness in response to a confessional faith, which begins in the heart, but which will (if at all possible) be manifested outwardly, and seals such faith as salvific, and without such it is considered incomplete. And which confession God also enables. But again, it is not be any merit of any confession that one is saved, but by imputed righteousness true faith appropriates.
James is not contrary to Paul in this who attests, “That if thou shalt CONFESS with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth CONFESSION is made unto salvation” (Rom 10:10). If one does believe in the heart, such a faith, if real, will constrain confession. “We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak” (2 Cor 4:13). The Lord Himself stated, “Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven” (Mat 10:32). And the writer of Hebrews declares that Jesus “became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him” (Heb 5:9).
And so we see that true faith and confession are inseparable, and that the only kind of faith that saves is one that will manifest heart faith by outward confession. But what constitutes a confession? It is a manifestation of response, which begins at the heart, the outward confession of which Paul states here is by the mouth. But confession is surely not limited to the mouth, but can be any faith (in Christ as Lord and Savior) motivated action. As regards bodily action besides the mouth, the primary formal manifestation is volitional baptism (Mark 16:16), which for some can be a “sinner’s prayer” in body language (Acts 2:38). This is not adding works to salvation, any more than the mental assent of faith is. In another instance, previously lost (Acts 11:14) Cornelius and household believed on the Lord Jesus and received the Holy Spirit just as the apostles did, before they spoke or were baptized (Acts 10:43-47; 15:7-9; Eph. 1:13).
BTW, JOhn told the Jews to repent because The Kingdom Of God was at hand ... Jesus, God in human flesh, was at hand and things were about to change and be different from before as Jesus fullfilled that which no Jew before could fullfill. John was baptising folks, too. Were they receiving the justification by faith with that act of submission? It is always good to understand to whom Jesus was speaking, and thus the timing of His words for His audience then, and down through the ages to even us.
When Jesus told Nicodemus 'You must be born again', He was explaining something hard for Nic to comprehend on that temporal side of the cross. We know this because Nic zoomed in on the earthly, typical interpretation of 'be born again'. But Jesus was referring to that which would come. Do you think the folks to whom He preached in sheol --in 'Abraham's bosom'-- came out of sheol without being born again? Absolutely not, because that is precisely what needs be for them to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven, as Jesus taught Nicodemus. But they were not born into new physical bodies as we define such. How do you imagine Nicodemus explained that 'being born again' AFTER he bought the loads of spices for Jesus's burial and learned of His resurrection? From that moment onward, I suspect that Nicodemus explained being born again using the example of 'first fruits', Jesus coming out of the grave and ascending unto the Father in Heaven. Yet Nic still had a mystery on his hands because Jesus took His resurrected body to Heaven! Ah, the great mystery that Paul later explains as we shall have new bodies in some where/when of God's choosing because we already have spiritual rebirth by our faith in His atonement.
What do you suppose Paul discussed with Peter, James and later John, when he returned to Jerusalem on more than one occasion to meet with the Apostles there? Now those are Church conferences I would paid to attend! And Paul tells his letter audience 'From them I received nothing beyond what I have taught you, repeatedly.' Paul taught salvation by 'faithing' ... action, based upon belief, sustained by the confidence living in God's Will produces.
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