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To: ChurtleDawg; Gamecock; Dr. Eckleburg; Quix; Ottofire; HarleyD
well, When the Catholic-Orthodox Church was whole, you would know that they condemned works-based salvation (Pelagianism) as heresy.

Yes, I've never met a Catholic who embraced FULL Pelagianism. However, a form of semi=Pelagianism appears to be the view today.

All salvation is solely the result of God’s good graces and mercy.

In that case, would you say that Ephesians 2:8-9 is a COMPLETE answer to the question of how we are saved vis-a-vis us? :

Eph 2:8-10 : 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith — and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. NIV

For this purpose we assume it's a given that Jesus went to the cross.

The difference is that Catholics don’t think that faith is just believing. We think faith is living. In this sense, it is entirely biblical, as put forward in the Epistle of James and in the Gospels.

By "living" do you mean doing works of the Law? How would you reconcile this to the passage above? I've had Catholics tell me before that "works" in Ephesians refers to "works for pay" when that is not indicated anywhere. Nowhere does the Bible hint that anyone ever thought that earning a living was the way to Heaven. Therefore there would have been no need to speak against it. There were plenty of people, though, who thought that doing works of the Law WAS a way to Heaven.

74 posted on 07/08/2008 12:42:06 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper; Gamecock; Dr. Eckleburg; Quix; Ottofire; HarleyD
By "living" do you mean doing works of the Law?

To me, the following describes living:

Luke 10:25 And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him, saying, "Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" 26 He said to him, "What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?" 27 So he answered and said, "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,' and 'your neighbor as yourself.' " 28 And He said to him, "You have answered rightly; do this and you will live." 29 But he, wanting to justify himself, said to Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?" 30 Then Jesus answered and said: "A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, who stripped him of his clothing, wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead. 31 Now by chance a certain priest came down that road. And when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. 32 Likewise a Levite, when he arrived at the place, came and looked, and passed by on the other side. 33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was. And when he saw him, he had compassion. 34 So he went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine; and he set him on his own animal, brought him to an inn, and took care of him. 35 On the next day, when he departed, he took out two denarii, gave them to the innkeeper, and said to him, 'Take care of him; and whatever more you spend, when I come again, I will repay you.' 36 So which of these three do you think was neighbor to him who fell among the thieves?" 37 And he said, "He who showed mercy on him." Then Jesus said to him, "Go and do likewise."

77 posted on 07/08/2008 1:37:57 PM PDT by DaveMSmith (If you know these things, you are blessed if you act upon them. John 13:17)
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