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Catholics & Salvation; And the answer is: Maybe.
Stand To Reason ^ | Gregory Koukl

Posted on 07/07/2008 10:39:05 PM PDT by Gamecock

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To: Dr. Eckleburg

“Scripture tells us time and again that we are to pray to God alone.”

Indeed, and in no place in the Jewish Scriptures or the N.T. does anyone of God pray to anyone in Heaven but God. The only persons who prayed to anyone else are pagans, such as burned incense to the queen of heaven (Jer. 44).

(Psa 62:5-6) “My soul, wait thou only upon God; for my expectation is from him. {6} He only is my rock and my salvation: he is my defence; I shall not be moved.”

In the context of prayer we are only called to cast our burdens upon God, whom we are assured (by Peter) cares for us (1 Pt. 5:7).

(Heb 7:25) “Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing

The role of the high priest and Heavenly intercessor is uniquely that of Christ (1 Tim. 2:5), of whom alone the Spirit declares “ever liveth to make intercession for them” (Heb. 7:25), and this office is His right, and to pray to another impugns His honor and efficacy.

Nor is there any need to pray to anyone else, seeing as Jesus alone “was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin”, and thus not only can empathize with the feeling of our weakness but very uniquely is qualified to enable us to overcome (Heb. 4:15).

(Heb 2:18) “For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.”

(Heb 7:25) “Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing

The role of the high priest and Heavenly intercessor is uniquely that of Christ (1 Tim. 2:5), of whom alone the Spirit declares “ever liveth to make intercession for them” (Heb. 7:25), and this office is His right, and to pray to another impugns His honor and efficacy.

Finally, no manner of universal adoration is given by anyone of God to in Scripture but the Lord, “And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. {14} And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.” (Rev 5:13-14; cf. Is. 2:17).

To truly follow after the example of Mary we will pray only to the one who is made the object of Heavenly prayer and universal worship, even God my Savior.


1,961 posted on 07/21/2008 4:29:30 PM PDT by daniel1212 ( Give your sins and life to Him who died your us and rose again. Jesus is Lord.)
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To: Marysecretary

It really matters what you bring into your house. There can be demons and curses put on them. That includes statues, paintings, icons, figurines, jewelry, etc.

= = =

I agree entirely . . . we found that rock music etc. heavy metal . . . was particularly vulnerable to such influences . . . some of the lyrics are rather brazenly satanic.


1,962 posted on 07/21/2008 4:30:06 PM PDT by Quix (WE HAVE THE OIL NOW http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3340274697167011147)
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To: Petronski
It's

Soooooooooo

thoughtful and kind when a rabid RC rep notes when someone in the pack has cushioned a truth-arrow’s trajectory.

Thanks.

1,963 posted on 07/21/2008 4:30:28 PM PDT by Quix (WE HAVE THE OIL NOW http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3340274697167011147)
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To: Quix

What did it cost to have yourself animated that way?


1,964 posted on 07/21/2008 4:30:46 PM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: Petronski

[Pray for these souls, brother, as will I.]

Indeed I will.

They start with a significant disadvantage in that they have a false belief that all Catholics are ignorant of Holy Scripture and other religious study, whereas the truth of it is they demonstrate an ignorance of the totality of Divine Revelation.

Whereas the Church arrived at Truth by the guidance of the Holy Spirit, they arrive at their false truth by cherry picking verses from Holy Scripture (and scholarly writings) to justify their heresy...which they believe to be truth.

In all of the above they come across as shallow, uneducated and, unfortunately, as not truly seeking God.


1,965 posted on 07/21/2008 4:31:58 PM PDT by big'ol_freeper ("Preach the Gospel always, and when necessary use words". ~ St. Francis of Assisi)
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To: Petronski

1,966 posted on 07/21/2008 4:32:12 PM PDT by Quix (WE HAVE THE OIL NOW http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3340274697167011147)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Thankfully, baptism is not what saves us.

Spare me the shabby Calvinism.

Baptism washes all sins clean. Those who are Baptised and do not sin again before their death are taken immediately to Heaven by the loving will of God Himself.

1,967 posted on 07/21/2008 4:32:51 PM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: big'ol_freeper
Laughing at RC rep nonsense and

RC edifice heresies and DOUBLE STANDARDS

hardly = heresy!


1,968 posted on 07/21/2008 4:33:53 PM PDT by Quix (WE HAVE THE OIL NOW http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3340274697167011147)
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To: big'ol_freeper

Thanks for that link...I will study it...


1,969 posted on 07/21/2008 4:34:27 PM PDT by andysandmikesmom
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To: Quix; Petronski

[I guess one might need such a book if one couldn’t hear Holy Spirit about such things.]

That’s kind of funny.... what one might think is the Holy Spirit might just be a space alien.

I’ll stick with the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, founded by Jesus Christ, and protected by the Holy Spirit, on that one. The track record of protestantism when it comes to being guided by the Holy Spirit can only be described as ... confused and ever increasingly so.


1,970 posted on 07/21/2008 4:36:40 PM PDT by big'ol_freeper ("Preach the Gospel always, and when necessary use words". ~ St. Francis of Assisi)
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To: Petronski

Wellllllllllll,

Dearums . . .

y’all just trot on down this heah street

thinkin’ y’all got the bestest

cunstruction on rahlity thar is . . . now, yuh heah?

Cuz the rest of us will just watch

and laugh our fool heads off at the absurdity of y’all’s well exercised puntifications.


1,971 posted on 07/21/2008 4:36:59 PM PDT by Quix (WE HAVE THE OIL NOW http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3340274697167011147)
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To: Petronski

Given that they thought I was so remarkably handsome, they volunteered to do it for free.


1,972 posted on 07/21/2008 4:38:10 PM PDT by Quix (WE HAVE THE OIL NOW http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3340274697167011147)
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To: Marysecretary

Do you really believe that someone hanging a crystal prism, in their front room window, so that when the sun shines through it, colors of the rainbow sparkle in the room, that this is somehow evil? I just thought people who did that, just liked looking at the colors, and I can hardly see something evil or sinister in it...I just dont buy into the notion, that somehow a crystal prism used in such a manner, is dangerous...


1,973 posted on 07/21/2008 4:39:07 PM PDT by andysandmikesmom
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To: big'ol_freeper

I’ll stick with the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, founded by Jesus Christ, and protected by the Holy Spirit, on that one. The track record of protestantism when it comes to being guided by the Holy Spirit can only be described as ... confused and ever increasingly so.

= = = =

My goodness!

I didn’t realize you’d left the Roman edifice!

What blessed news!


1,974 posted on 07/21/2008 4:39:47 PM PDT by Quix (WE HAVE THE OIL NOW http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3340274697167011147)
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To: Quix

Your creepiest post yet.


1,975 posted on 07/21/2008 4:40:10 PM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: roamer_1; Lord_Calvinus
No Presbyterian believes baptism is "salvic." Grace saves, and grace alone. Saving grace is not imparted at baptism; it is confirmed at baptism. And that confirmation is grace-filled and blesses the participants by its public recognition among the congregation that the child has been named to be a member of the covenant from before the foundation of the world.

I forget if I pinged you to post 1762 but here is my Presbyterian take on it...

POST 1762

Lord-Calvinus' posting of the Westminster Confession of Faith on the sacraments is an great Biblical defense of Scriptural truth, via the Presbyterian denomination in particular...

POST 1819

1,976 posted on 07/21/2008 4:43:00 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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Comment #1,977 Removed by Moderator

Comment #1,978 Removed by Moderator

To: Quix

[I didn’t realize you’d left the Roman edifice!]

I have no idea what a “roman edifice” is.

I was baptized into Christ by the Holy Spirit, through a priest, by the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church..uh a few years ago (tongue in cheek) and, despite my many failings, have remained a loyal son of God since then.

Every night I pray for all who are outside of His Church, and often mocking His Church, to be awakened by the Holy Spirit so that they may come home to Holy Mother Church and receive the fullness of Graces that can only be found there.

I’d ask you to open your heart, reject Satan and come home and join us.


1,979 posted on 07/21/2008 4:46:16 PM PDT by big'ol_freeper ("Preach the Gospel always, and when necessary use words". ~ St. Francis of Assisi)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

An understatement.

Agreed.


1,980 posted on 07/21/2008 4:47:32 PM PDT by daniel1212 ( Give your sins and life to Him who died your us and rose again. Jesus is Lord.)
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