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Catholics & Salvation; And the answer is: Maybe.
Stand To Reason ^ | Gregory Koukl

Posted on 07/07/2008 10:39:05 PM PDT by Gamecock

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To: Alamo-Girl

No.

No.

No.

Those who love me do not applaud lies about my faith.


1,381 posted on 07/20/2008 10:36:53 AM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: betty boop
Thank you oh so very much, dearest sister in Christ, for mentioning this latest book project, There is only One Great Commandment! And thank you for all your contributions and efforts in pulling it together!


1,382 posted on 07/20/2008 10:38:28 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Thank you oh so very much for that beautiful Scripture!!! And thank you, dear sister in Christ, for all of your encouragements.

Telling the truth should not make Christians enemies of each other. It should encourage us to seek more of God's truth.

Precisely so.

To God be the glory!

1,383 posted on 07/20/2008 10:42:21 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Petronski; Marysecretary
What you left unstated is that those who do not believe in Him do so of their own free will

No one disagrees with that. Those who do not believe are those whom God has left to their own fallen natures, those whose eyes and ears He has not opened to the Scriptures, those whose mind has not been renewed by the Holy Spirit, those who have not been born again by the will of God.

"He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear." -- Matthew 13:-16

"To them it is not gven." Christ says He spoke in parables for the precise reason that only those to whom God gives new ears and new eyes will hear the truth and see the truth and believe the truth and be saved by the atonement of the "Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

"The hearing ear, and the seeing eye, the LORD hath made even both of them." -- Proverbs 20:12

1,384 posted on 07/20/2008 10:48:21 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Petronski; P-Marlowe; trisham; Alamo-Girl; Quix; Dr. Eckleburg

Petronski, I don’t consider P-Marlowe a spokesman for me either. I’ve kept off this thread for quite a while, but I have to say that Alamo-Girl’s endearments do not impress me at all, particularly when coupled with some of the more egregious protestant posts.

When A-G expresses agreement, affection, and gratitude to a poster who characterizes Catholic posters as “white hanky brigade” and “attack dogs” and does the same to a poster whose abuse of scripture is the validation for mocking the Catholic Church, then it becomes impossible to think that A-G’s use of “dear” in addressing any Catholic poster is sincere.

Fake affection is despicable, particularly under the guise of “Christian Love.” Fake affection IS creepy.

On the other hand, I am comfortable to be, at times, one of the “White Hanky Brigade Attack Dogs.” That, at least, was honestly felt, and not the treacly, phony, “dear.”

It is a matter of courtesy and dignity to address someone in the way requested.


1,385 posted on 07/20/2008 10:51:02 AM PDT by Judith Anne
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To: Alamo-Girl
there is more poison in the handle than in the point of a verbal dart

Wow! What a great line. I may have to steal that one. 8~)

1,386 posted on 07/20/2008 10:51:17 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Judith Anne
It is a matter of courtesy and dignity to address someone in the way requested.

Or at the least to avoid addressing them in a manner protested.

1,387 posted on 07/20/2008 10:54:15 AM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: Petronski
Thank you so very much for sharing your concerns, dear brother in Christ!

Those who love me do not applaud lies about my faith.

What a revealing statement!

The love of God, which we Christians flow into the world, is not earned. Nor does it fade or halt because the object of the love does not agree with us. It does not fade or halt even if the object of our love is our declared enemy.

Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more [than others]? do not even the publicans so?

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. – Matthew 5:43-48

And again (emphasis mine):

ENCYCLICAL LETTER DEUS CARITAS EST OF THE SUPREME PONTIFF BENEDICT XVI TO THE BISHOPS PRIESTS AND DEACONS MEN AND WOMEN RELIGIOUS AND ALL THE LAY FAITHFUL ON CHRISTIAN LOVE

1. “God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him” (1 Jn 4:16). These words from the First Letter of John express with remarkable clarity the heart of the Christian faith: the Christian image of God and the resulting image of mankind and its destiny. In the same verse, Saint John also offers a kind of summary of the Christian life: “We have come to know and to believe in the love God has for us”.

We have come to believe in God's love: in these words the Christian can express the fundamental decision of his life. Being Christian is not the result of an ethical choice or a lofty idea, but the encounter with an event, a person, which gives life a new horizon and a decisive direction. Saint John's Gospel describes that event in these words: “God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should ... have eternal life” (3:16). In acknowledging the centrality of love, Christian faith has retained the core of Israel's faith, while at the same time giving it new depth and breadth. The pious Jew prayed daily the words of the Book of Deuteronomy which expressed the heart of his existence: “Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God is one Lord, and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul and with all your might” (6:4-5). Jesus united into a single precept this commandment of love for God and the commandment of love for neighbour found in the Book of Leviticus: “You shall love your neighbour as yourself” (19:18; cf. Mk 12:29-31). Since God has first loved us (cf. 1 Jn 4:10), love is now no longer a mere “command”; it is the response to the gift of love with which God draws near to us.

In a world where the name of God is sometimes associated with vengeance or even a duty of hatred and violence, this message is both timely and significant. For this reason, I wish in my first Encyclical to speak of the love which God lavishes upon us and which we in turn must share with others. That, in essence, is what the two main parts of this Letter are about, and they are profoundly interconnected. The first part is more speculative, since I wanted here—at the beginning of my Pontificate—to clarify some essential facts concerning the love which God mysteriously and gratuitously offers to man, together with the intrinsic link between that Love and the reality of human love. The second part is more concrete, since it treats the ecclesial exercise of the commandment of love of neighbour. The argument has vast implications, but a lengthy treatment would go beyond the scope of the present Encyclical. I wish to emphasize some basic elements, so as to call forth in the world renewed energy and commitment in the human response to God's love.

To God be the glory!
1,388 posted on 07/20/2008 10:57:32 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Judith Anne
Thank you for sharing your concerns, dear sister in Christ! Please consider yourself pinged to 1388.
1,389 posted on 07/20/2008 11:00:41 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl
What a revealing statement!

Apparently not. You missed my point completely. Your professions of love for me are not credible in light of your behavior. They are saccharin, treacly, fake, creepy, unwelcome.

Yet despite your volunteered assurance, you refuse to stop.

1,390 posted on 07/20/2008 11:01:21 AM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
LOLOL! Please go right ahead!
1,391 posted on 07/20/2008 11:01:51 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Petronski
I cannot stop. The love of God does not work that way. I cannot hate someone else as a precondition to be worthy of expressing my love for you.

Then Peter opened [his] mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: - Acts 10:34

To God be the glory!

1,392 posted on 07/20/2008 11:05:18 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl
I cannot stop.

Yet you said you would.

1,393 posted on 07/20/2008 11:06:58 AM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: Petronski; Forest Keeper
There is no Scriptural evidence that the gifts given to the apostles continued after their deaths. The apostles performed miracles NOT because they were supernatural beings, or "another Christ," but because it was God's will that Christianity be spread through the word of God, and the visible miracles of God helped to convince unbelievers in these early days.

But those days ended with the apostles' deaths and we know this because there is nothing written in Scripture about some unbroken line of priestly offices.

In fact, those lies are refuted in Scripture which tells us that now all believers make up the "royal priesthood," the priesthood of all believers.

The only sign Christians need now is the resurrection.

"Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ...

But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light" -- 1 Peter 2:5,9

The first thing a conquering army does is install local chieftons who control the provinces. That's what the church in Rome has done by telling its people the office of this "royal priesthood" has been taken from them and divided among those who call themselves "another Christ."

1,394 posted on 07/20/2008 11:07:34 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

creepy bookmarker


1,395 posted on 07/20/2008 11:11:44 AM PDT by 1000 silverlings (Everything that deceives also enchants: Plato)
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To: Petronski
Again, you retained the premise of "fake" and "creepy" which requires that I reaffirm the love of God we have and express for one another whether by the word "beloved" or "dear" or a holy kiss or some other term of endearment - is neither fake nor creepy.
1,396 posted on 07/20/2008 11:15:40 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
There is no Scriptural evidence that we are to be bound by the false doctrine sola scriptura.
1,397 posted on 07/20/2008 11:16:09 AM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: Alamo-Girl

Again you violate your own promise to stop posting to me if I asked.


1,398 posted on 07/20/2008 11:16:59 AM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: DaveMSmith
In it's simplest terms, I understand salvation as "Believe in Christ, and do the work of repentance, and you will be saved."

LOL. Do you really think Christ's words need to be augmented? That is not what Christ said.

"He that heareth my word and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life" -- John 5:24


He that believeth on me hath everylasting life." -- John 6:47


Be not afraid; only believe." -- Mark 5:36

You make the grace of God of no effect because you seek it by the law and not by grace alone through faith alone.

Today's calvinist mantra of 'sins washed away with the blood of Christ' is justification for a slacker's faith.

Where does any Calvinist around here give any indication of being a "slacker?" The grace of God brings with it the good fruits of the Holy Spirit. Good works are the evidence of our salvation, not a requirement for it. Grace saves, and grace alone.

Have your sins been washed away by the blood of Christ?

Or have your sins been merely pre-washed, leaving you to work on the final wash and rinse?

1,399 posted on 07/20/2008 11:20:21 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; OLD REGGIE
I've known dozens of ex-Catholics who said once they finally got around to actually reading the Bible itself, they quickly fled Rome and embraced the truth of God's word.

About 25% of our church is ex-RC's. Preaching The Gospel and Bible studies are how we participate in their wanting to be a part of our church.

1,400 posted on 07/20/2008 11:21:20 AM PDT by wmfights (Believe - THE GOSPEL - and be saved)
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